What aspect of planet Earth must be changed to prevent the industrial revolution?












6












$begingroup$


I am thinking of a planet (I suppose one would call it a parallel earth) where the industrial revolution never happens, and people live with 1700s technology forever. What differences in resources/weather/environment/available land area could ensure that it doesn't happen, and what impact would these changes have on other aspects of society?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Sheikchilli is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! We're glad you could join us! When you have a moment, please click here to learn more about our culture and take our tour. You're asking what we call a high concept question, which isn't a good fit for our site. The SE model is one-specific-question/one-best-answer and you've asked two - one of which (impact on society) is too broad/opinion-based to answer. Please edit your question to meet our help center guidelines.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    12 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    1700s tech includes the printing press, the telescope and the microscope and good clocks; there are already universities teaching science. I think, industrial revolution is almost unavoidable at that point and can only be delayed.
    $endgroup$
    – jknappen
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Related: Could the Industrial Revolution be delayed indefinitely? Or is it inevitable once a certain point in development is reached?
    $endgroup$
    – Alexander
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    While not everyone agrees on the no fossil fuels thing, if you go that route, there is a very easy scientific way to do it. Most of the world's fossil fuels exist because plants developed cellulose 60 million years before any organism learned how to digest it; so, every plant that died was unable to decompose and became fossil fuels instead. Eliminate that wait, and you have no fossil fuel industry.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @GreenieE. The industrial revolution did not rely upon steam engines (more the needs of the industrial revolution inspired more interest in steam engines). Also, changing the chemical structure of water carries far more dramatic effects than just inhibiting steam engines.
    $endgroup$
    – pluckedkiwi
    6 hours ago
















6












$begingroup$


I am thinking of a planet (I suppose one would call it a parallel earth) where the industrial revolution never happens, and people live with 1700s technology forever. What differences in resources/weather/environment/available land area could ensure that it doesn't happen, and what impact would these changes have on other aspects of society?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Sheikchilli is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! We're glad you could join us! When you have a moment, please click here to learn more about our culture and take our tour. You're asking what we call a high concept question, which isn't a good fit for our site. The SE model is one-specific-question/one-best-answer and you've asked two - one of which (impact on society) is too broad/opinion-based to answer. Please edit your question to meet our help center guidelines.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    12 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    1700s tech includes the printing press, the telescope and the microscope and good clocks; there are already universities teaching science. I think, industrial revolution is almost unavoidable at that point and can only be delayed.
    $endgroup$
    – jknappen
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Related: Could the Industrial Revolution be delayed indefinitely? Or is it inevitable once a certain point in development is reached?
    $endgroup$
    – Alexander
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    While not everyone agrees on the no fossil fuels thing, if you go that route, there is a very easy scientific way to do it. Most of the world's fossil fuels exist because plants developed cellulose 60 million years before any organism learned how to digest it; so, every plant that died was unable to decompose and became fossil fuels instead. Eliminate that wait, and you have no fossil fuel industry.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @GreenieE. The industrial revolution did not rely upon steam engines (more the needs of the industrial revolution inspired more interest in steam engines). Also, changing the chemical structure of water carries far more dramatic effects than just inhibiting steam engines.
    $endgroup$
    – pluckedkiwi
    6 hours ago














6












6








6





$begingroup$


I am thinking of a planet (I suppose one would call it a parallel earth) where the industrial revolution never happens, and people live with 1700s technology forever. What differences in resources/weather/environment/available land area could ensure that it doesn't happen, and what impact would these changes have on other aspects of society?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Sheikchilli is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




I am thinking of a planet (I suppose one would call it a parallel earth) where the industrial revolution never happens, and people live with 1700s technology forever. What differences in resources/weather/environment/available land area could ensure that it doesn't happen, and what impact would these changes have on other aspects of society?







natural-resources pre-industrial






share|improve this question









New contributor




Sheikchilli is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




Sheikchilli is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 4 hours ago









Glorfindel

4111614




4111614






New contributor




Sheikchilli is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 13 hours ago









SheikchilliSheikchilli

313




313




New contributor




Sheikchilli is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Sheikchilli is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Sheikchilli is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! We're glad you could join us! When you have a moment, please click here to learn more about our culture and take our tour. You're asking what we call a high concept question, which isn't a good fit for our site. The SE model is one-specific-question/one-best-answer and you've asked two - one of which (impact on society) is too broad/opinion-based to answer. Please edit your question to meet our help center guidelines.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    12 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    1700s tech includes the printing press, the telescope and the microscope and good clocks; there are already universities teaching science. I think, industrial revolution is almost unavoidable at that point and can only be delayed.
    $endgroup$
    – jknappen
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Related: Could the Industrial Revolution be delayed indefinitely? Or is it inevitable once a certain point in development is reached?
    $endgroup$
    – Alexander
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    While not everyone agrees on the no fossil fuels thing, if you go that route, there is a very easy scientific way to do it. Most of the world's fossil fuels exist because plants developed cellulose 60 million years before any organism learned how to digest it; so, every plant that died was unable to decompose and became fossil fuels instead. Eliminate that wait, and you have no fossil fuel industry.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @GreenieE. The industrial revolution did not rely upon steam engines (more the needs of the industrial revolution inspired more interest in steam engines). Also, changing the chemical structure of water carries far more dramatic effects than just inhibiting steam engines.
    $endgroup$
    – pluckedkiwi
    6 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! We're glad you could join us! When you have a moment, please click here to learn more about our culture and take our tour. You're asking what we call a high concept question, which isn't a good fit for our site. The SE model is one-specific-question/one-best-answer and you've asked two - one of which (impact on society) is too broad/opinion-based to answer. Please edit your question to meet our help center guidelines.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    12 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    1700s tech includes the printing press, the telescope and the microscope and good clocks; there are already universities teaching science. I think, industrial revolution is almost unavoidable at that point and can only be delayed.
    $endgroup$
    – jknappen
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Related: Could the Industrial Revolution be delayed indefinitely? Or is it inevitable once a certain point in development is reached?
    $endgroup$
    – Alexander
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    While not everyone agrees on the no fossil fuels thing, if you go that route, there is a very easy scientific way to do it. Most of the world's fossil fuels exist because plants developed cellulose 60 million years before any organism learned how to digest it; so, every plant that died was unable to decompose and became fossil fuels instead. Eliminate that wait, and you have no fossil fuel industry.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @GreenieE. The industrial revolution did not rely upon steam engines (more the needs of the industrial revolution inspired more interest in steam engines). Also, changing the chemical structure of water carries far more dramatic effects than just inhibiting steam engines.
    $endgroup$
    – pluckedkiwi
    6 hours ago
















$begingroup$
Welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! We're glad you could join us! When you have a moment, please click here to learn more about our culture and take our tour. You're asking what we call a high concept question, which isn't a good fit for our site. The SE model is one-specific-question/one-best-answer and you've asked two - one of which (impact on society) is too broad/opinion-based to answer. Please edit your question to meet our help center guidelines.
$endgroup$
– JBH
12 hours ago




$begingroup$
Welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! We're glad you could join us! When you have a moment, please click here to learn more about our culture and take our tour. You're asking what we call a high concept question, which isn't a good fit for our site. The SE model is one-specific-question/one-best-answer and you've asked two - one of which (impact on society) is too broad/opinion-based to answer. Please edit your question to meet our help center guidelines.
$endgroup$
– JBH
12 hours ago




3




3




$begingroup$
1700s tech includes the printing press, the telescope and the microscope and good clocks; there are already universities teaching science. I think, industrial revolution is almost unavoidable at that point and can only be delayed.
$endgroup$
– jknappen
10 hours ago




$begingroup$
1700s tech includes the printing press, the telescope and the microscope and good clocks; there are already universities teaching science. I think, industrial revolution is almost unavoidable at that point and can only be delayed.
$endgroup$
– jknappen
10 hours ago












$begingroup$
Related: Could the Industrial Revolution be delayed indefinitely? Or is it inevitable once a certain point in development is reached?
$endgroup$
– Alexander
10 hours ago




$begingroup$
Related: Could the Industrial Revolution be delayed indefinitely? Or is it inevitable once a certain point in development is reached?
$endgroup$
– Alexander
10 hours ago












$begingroup$
While not everyone agrees on the no fossil fuels thing, if you go that route, there is a very easy scientific way to do it. Most of the world's fossil fuels exist because plants developed cellulose 60 million years before any organism learned how to digest it; so, every plant that died was unable to decompose and became fossil fuels instead. Eliminate that wait, and you have no fossil fuel industry.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
While not everyone agrees on the no fossil fuels thing, if you go that route, there is a very easy scientific way to do it. Most of the world's fossil fuels exist because plants developed cellulose 60 million years before any organism learned how to digest it; so, every plant that died was unable to decompose and became fossil fuels instead. Eliminate that wait, and you have no fossil fuel industry.
$endgroup$
– Nosajimiki
7 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
@GreenieE. The industrial revolution did not rely upon steam engines (more the needs of the industrial revolution inspired more interest in steam engines). Also, changing the chemical structure of water carries far more dramatic effects than just inhibiting steam engines.
$endgroup$
– pluckedkiwi
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
@GreenieE. The industrial revolution did not rely upon steam engines (more the needs of the industrial revolution inspired more interest in steam engines). Also, changing the chemical structure of water carries far more dramatic effects than just inhibiting steam engines.
$endgroup$
– pluckedkiwi
6 hours ago










16 Answers
16






active

oldest

votes


















15












$begingroup$

Limit the availability of raw materials, in particular fossil fuels and iron. Without fossil fuels you are limited to wood burning as a power source which is far less energy dense and a much more finite supply. Without iron it's much harder to make much of the earlier engineering feats.



This means you don't get useful steam engines or railways which were two of the largest factors in industrialization. This would also extend out to mining which becomes harder, etc.



The life of most people would not be impacted as much (iron, steel and in particular steel weapons would be extremely rare and valuable) but would continue as normal.



Eventually you can expect people to find a way around these limitations so there would still be technological advancement but it would be much slower. So you can't achieve "for ever" but you could conceivably have centuries of millennia of very slow advancement before enough breakthroughs are made to unlock alternative technologies.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Really, just limit coal -- you'll keep steel an expensive luxury item, used in swords and armor (by the rich) and little else. You'll be centuries just developing the ability to drill for oil.
    $endgroup$
    – Zeiss Ikon
    12 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    what alternative technologies could these be?
    $endgroup$
    – Sheikchilli
    12 hours ago






  • 10




    $begingroup$
    The industrial revolution does not need steam engines. Water power works as well, and wood fired trains run fine too, even if not as efficient, and necessity might get people to look earlier at oil or gas fired trains, or use alcohol as fuel. Never underestimate the ingenuity of people, the absence of coal will change but not stop the industrial revolution
    $endgroup$
    – Whitecold
    11 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Alcohol! That's what I was looking for! Or biological gases!
    $endgroup$
    – genesis
    11 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @Whitecold Not only does water work, it did work. Factories had 50-100 years of using water power before steam engines replaced it. And even then, the layout of factories and the size of steam engines was dictated by driving the old water-powered machinery.
    $endgroup$
    – Graham
    7 hours ago



















11












$begingroup$

That is far too advanced to expect technology to remain static for long.
Technology advances without new resources - new resources certainly shape how technology advances, but better methods and processes develop using the same resource constraints.



Coal is not the cause of industrialization, so eliminating it will not prevent advancement. This may be suggested as people misunderstand the industrial revolution and think it was caused by steam-power, but the industrial revolution was already well underway before that became widespread (causality runs the other way - it is the industrial revolution which leads to the development of steam power as innovators sought ways to feed the rapidly growing power needs).
Charcoal is nearly as good for most purposes anyway, so you would see all the effort that went into coal mining go into tree farms and kilns, and likely transport of charcoal from areas with plentiful forests.



Water power was extensively used for industrial purposes but was supplanted because conditions made coal-fired steam engines cheaper. Canals were being built at a rapid place to facilitate trade before railroads became cheaper. Windmills were used where water was either scarce or slow-moving (I've been fascinated by the Dutch sawmills). While certainly more expensive and more constrained than steam engines, these still power development.



Imposing sufficient constraints to prevent people developing beyond the 18th century standards would be sufficient constraints that they would be unable to attain even that level of development.



Developments like capitalism, assembly-line production, standardized replaceable parts, cargo containerization, and most of the truly innovative changes which allowed the amazing economic development we enjoy today do not rely upon any resources beyond the human mind.



The constraint will need to be societal in nature, like a strong religious prohibition on any changes, but that will not last forever as there will always be those who question.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    I have to disagree. You can sustain limited industrialization with sources such as water wheels, charcoal burning engines, etc. There just is not enough space to grow enough trees to replace coal as a fuel source. Obviously it will not stop it completely but progress will stall once it is not possible to kick-start it with millions of years worth of stored solar power in the form of fossil fuels.
    $endgroup$
    – Tim B
    9 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @TimB I don't see this argument work in light of what the answer says about wind and water power. There is possiblity of moving from water to gas, for example, bypassing coal. Obviously you would have limitations due to coal used extensively in heating things, but the problem doesn't appear insurmountable.
    $endgroup$
    – Gnudiff
    9 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @TimB Not only was the industrial revolution well under way before steam engines (whole factories were built around waterwheels and it took a long time after their invention for steam engines to replace waterwheels), but coal is not necessary. Had coal not been available, industrial processes would have shifted form rather than been impossible. In the United States, where trees were certainly plentiful, charcoal was preferred until the mid 19th century and at least one charcoal blast furnace lasted until the end of WW2.
    $endgroup$
    – pluckedkiwi
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Charcoal would have become prohibitively expensive also. As the demand for charcoal rose without coal replacing it, many countries would have deforested their landscape. Eventually, they would have to rely on water or wind power, but with devastated ecosystems.
    $endgroup$
    – Sonvar
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Sonvar that would not have stopped people from using charcoal, many countries deforested their land anyway. Really the big invention that kick starts the industrial revolution is the invention of the metal lathe which creates the ability to make precision machinery.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    37 mins ago





















3












$begingroup$

I think that you will find that strong property rights are a common characteristic of peoples and nations that innovate in the way the English did in creating the industrial revolution. Why build a mill if somebody else is going to destroy it or take it away from you?






share|improve this answer








New contributor




Peter Knibbe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Don't forget copyright, patent, and trademark laws. While they stifle certain kinds of innovation, they allow the big leaps that bring technology forward by protecting large capital investments.
    $endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Speaking of property rights, there are some theories which claim industrial revolution should be traced to the process of enclosure in England, which sparked development and thus why they lead in industrialization.
    $endgroup$
    – pluckedkiwi
    6 hours ago



















3












$begingroup$

The (misconception here, there's been many industrial revolutions in major & minor countries over quite some time - even Switzerland had some) Industrial Revolutions have not just been about technology, but also about society.



The change from homeworking and small manufacturing to central factories and exporting goods had to go hand-in-hand with changes in how society worked and accepted these paradigm shifts.





  • People had to have reasons to work in these new factories powering new industries.


  • Laws had to be accommodating these new structures and allow for them - many medieval laws actively prevented any advances that destroyed working places, this changed with the renaissance..


Instead of removing resources, prevent changes in law - thus prevent reformation of societies. This will prevent any advances in industrialization and technology much longer than removing some resources.





TL;DR You can't prevent industrialization by getting rid of resources, but you can delay any huge technological advances by keeping society static.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    2












    $begingroup$

    You might not need a reason. We assume that just because something has happened to us it seems natural but consider that in Australia they never invented bow and arrow.



    There might also be fewer political or economic forces to make such inventions attractive. Given good farmland humans might be able to live on very few hours of work a day and be perfectly happy. I think Harari's Sapiens was discussing this.



    I'm also not sure if you would still consider this industrial revolution but it is not (immediately) obvious (to me, at least) that many of the achievements of the steam engine could not have been done without it. Wind energy was already popular.






    share|improve this answer










    New contributor




    genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






    $endgroup$









    • 1




      $begingroup$
      There are many indigenous peoples around the world who never made it to the industrial age - even to the present day. The key is to have a society whose sole job is to sustain their lifestyle. Once you give people 'free time' to invent, they will find new things. Reading and writing allow people to advance because they build their knowledge base.
      $endgroup$
      – Tracy Cramer
      9 hours ago





















    1












    $begingroup$

    It's been argued the fact that Western Europe was splintered into competing and often warring kingdoms, with an independent Catholic Church, following the fall of the Roman Empire contributed to a culture of learning and technological innovation that eventually led to the Industrial Revolution.



    Yes, Europe benefited from a unique geography, fertile soils, and a rich abundance of mineral resources. However if Europe had been united under one secular and/or religious ruler, as in China or the Ottoman Empire, new and disruptive thinking, financial innovations, and technologies could have been easily suppressed.



    If the Roman Empire had persisted under one emperor, and indeed expanded into Germany, Eastern Europe, and perhaps farther east, I can't see the Renaissance, the Scientific Revolution, or the Industrial Revolution happening in Europe or anywhere else on Earth, at least not by the present time.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      The Roman Empire, in many ways, was already at the door step to the industrial revolution. they had power consumption needs to power their lives, hey had some centralized industry to satisfy their needs and for trade, and they were developing new technologies and techniques to make their lives better. Problem was, Rome was very corrupt and only the rich and powerful were protected from a thuggish government. Only a small group oligarchs were able to invest in large capital projects. So progress was slow
      $endgroup$
      – Sonvar
      3 hours ago



















    1












    $begingroup$

    Here are a number of ideas, some are more speculative and handwaving than others.




    • No Coal Deposits


    Have some kind of bacteria that rapidly decomposes dead wood develope when trees come around. They would need to be quite resilient and have some extremophile cousins to decompose wood in anaerobic environments.




    • No Colonialism


    This is really speculative but could work story wise. Have a ghost plage-ship reach the America 200 years before Columbus or have the Norse colonies on Vinland and Markland succeed. Both events would allow the Americans to develop immunities to European diseases, which killed 95% of the population before the Europeans came to colonize. The technological advantage would not have been sufficient to conquer native superpowers during that time. No American colonial nations would hamper European economies, because there would be fewer export markets. Without the colonial successes in the Americas the tedious adventures in Africa, South-East-Asia and India wouldn´t have a base. Especially the case of India is interesting, as the looting of India by the British and it's use as a resource mine and market might have been crucial for the industrial revolution to happen.




    • Slavery


    Brasil isn´t a world power. That´s really odd as it is a huge, resource and manpower-rich country. The reason for that is that they didn´t industrialized, as their economy was slave-based. European economies weren´t slave-based because the Pope prohibited the enslavement of the recently baptized in 1435. Never let this happen and you got slave economies in Europe.



    All that said I don´t feel that option two and three will be permanent. Option one with no coal means no industry or the rapid collapse of it when the forests are all cut down. An example of this would be the Mioan copper industry on Crete. This would hit all the countries equally.
    Options two and three would only hamper Europe. In that case, my money would be on one of the Mughal Empires Indian successor states or Japan starting the spiral of technological development. India had been one of the most industrialized regions of the world for millennia until the British came plundering. Japan had already developed high-sea ships, but they were shocked into isolationism upon contact with the more advanced Europeans. Keep the Europeans primitive and a Japanese colonial Empire could be the first step in and eastern technology arms race with Korea and Qing. But both the latter options would give you a few centuries longer of pre-industrial Europe to play around with.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$









    • 1




      $begingroup$
      None of these actually affect the industrial revolution. Coal comes close, but that is largely a misconception due to coal being heavily used in how the industrial revolution developed. Slavery is absolutely irrelevant (maybe even retards development), and colonialism likely cost more than it provided. There is simply no mechanism for those to be necessary for an industrial revolution.
      $endgroup$
      – pluckedkiwi
      11 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @pluckedkiwi 1. How is coal a misconception? Without it as a dense energy surce there will be no steam engines. Wood won´t work due to deforestation. 2. Slavery is absolutely relevant, as the industrial revolution was about making work more efficient. Slaves are cheap workers who can be bread en masse if needed. Additionally slaves don´t buy as many products as free workers, so the markets would not demand industrialised production. 3. What kind of colonialism are you talking about? The Americas where maybe financially negative, but Asia was most defintively not.
      $endgroup$
      – TheDyingOfLight
      11 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      1. The industrial revolution got started without widespread use of coal. It was used extensively out of convenience, being relatively cheap and energy-dense, but there is no requirement for it. Coal certainly helped expand development more rapidly than without it, but this is not the same as being required for industrial innovation (one could even argue that it retarded technological developments in efficiency as it made inefficient processes less prohibitively expensive). I see no way that lacking coal would have prevented technological innovation.
      $endgroup$
      – pluckedkiwi
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      2. Slavery is irrelevant because it has no significant influence on the industrial revolution. Personally I find that excessively reductive to the point of being misleading. Development has a multitude of causes, of which slavery is not determinative (not least of which because of how you define "slave" vs serf vs itinerant worker). Climate, disease, cultural traits, good governance, extractive colonial governments, etc.
      $endgroup$
      – pluckedkiwi
      8 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      I would add, a big factor why slave based economy countries are not developed is mostly due to the way the government operated. In a semi-free country, such as western Europe, the government were somewhat held accountable, thus managed the country better, allowing for better economy to flourish. In most slave countries, the government had little regard for the people and thus treated them hard and would take from them what they wanted when they wanted. This would stifle development. Just look at Brazils turbulent and corrupt history for that.
      $endgroup$
      – Sonvar
      3 hours ago



















    0












    $begingroup$

    A possible catastrophe to stead the progression of technology would need to force people away from cities/ prevent people from gathering in large groups to create a disposable work force (factories would not be able to staff up to full production). A new flu strain might make people weary of large gatherings and tight proximity, a law might be in-place to prevent talk of uprisings and challenges to the powers that be, maybe a disease that only effects woman has killed off most of the females of our population and those left are forced into exclusivity to protect their female resources. The how is pretty broad, but one of those scenarios would be an interesting place to build a world out of.



    In terms of impact, the amount of humans the earth can support would be dramatically reduced. Up to current time, population spikes have been met with new technology in the agriculture space to support the new boom. The industrialization of farming is what allowed large populations to be sustained during the industrial revolution, and also allowed for large amounts of the populations that did not have to farm. People all over the world would be starving, likely forcing more people into indentured servitude or slavery as those ways of life would likely be the only way to get fed. It would start its own apocalyptic world, where a large portion of the world is doomed to die of starvation. People likely would turn to cannibalism and the fabric of society would quickly unravel.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      A viral strain that targeted wheat before the advent of biology or genetics. Much of the western world would have been decimated before anyone would have known what was going on.
      $endgroup$
      – Sonvar
      3 hours ago



















    0












    $begingroup$

    Religious oppression.



    Religion won't allow certain advancements.



    The impact is fairly obvious, disease and starvation remain rampant, people never live very long, knowledge is rarely passed between generations.



    Here's a simplified view.



    Generation 1: Man needs wood for his fire, he can only collect fallen trees. He spends his entire life collecting wood and hunting. His son grows up.



    Generation 2: Seeing his father busy from wood hunting, her tries to use tools he already has to cut down a tree. Smashing it with a rock doesn't work, but eventually the rock splits and becomes sharp. This new sharp rock works much better. His son sees this.



    Generation 3: The Axe is born, the man goes out and cuts down a tree, brings it home, and raises a family, the son is a baby.



    ---Religious fanatics attack claiming this new axe invention violates gods rules of the world. The man is killed and his axe destroyed.



    Generation 4: The baby grows to be a man, and has to go collect wood for the fire by hand, not knowing about the lost invention of the axe or how to make one.



    The cycle repeats forever.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$









    • 2




      $begingroup$
      "The dark ages halted the development of civilization for a long time. It was a time where math and science was evil" This is actually a bit of a myth. However, if the mediaeval period had been like this then indeed we would have been proper stuck (probably regressed, even), so your suggestion is still sound.
      $endgroup$
      – Lightness Races in Orbit
      11 hours ago








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Such tight control would never allow 18th century achievements, which was already quite modern in many ways. Also, "the dark ages" were not really a thing (unless you are talking about post-bronze age collapse Greece in the 12th century BC) - that idea is a holdover from before we had properly developed history as an academic field.
      $endgroup$
      – pluckedkiwi
      11 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @pluckedkiwi Would the Amish be a better example of religion suppressing technology?
      $endgroup$
      – Trevor D
      11 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      The problem is that this regime will most probably be destroyed at some point by a rival one that didn't outlaw technology. The Amish only exist because they live in a bigger technophile regime that both tolerates it and protects it from others, which by definition cannot be scaled up to the entire world, especially a pre-industrial one.
      $endgroup$
      – Eth
      11 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      More generally, the religious fanatics excuse is often lazily used to justify some bad quirk in worldbuilding, generally in a nonsensical way based on long-debunked clichés like the medieval dark ages, or the medieval/renaissance Catholic Church/Muslim empires supposed flat-earther anti-science stance.
      $endgroup$
      – Eth
      11 hours ago



















    0












    $begingroup$

    The industrial revolution happened because of advances in technology.



    Technology improved because of advances in science.



    Science (and art) improved because more resources and people time became available.



    This Renaissance happened because a substantial portion of the population suddenly disappeared (Black Plague), leaving a population with far more resources and infrastructure per person that they had ever had before.



    So, if you want to prevent the industrial revolution, you have to first eliminate the Renaissance. And you can do that by eliminating the Black Plague, and allowing Europe to continue existing in the dark ages.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$









    • 1




      $begingroup$
      It's not like technological advances were inexistent during the medieval period in Europe. Architecture, engineering, fabrication, materials science; They all progressed. Even without a plague it is certain that technology would have kept progressing.
      $endgroup$
      – Gabriel C.
      9 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      This may exacerbate the need to colonize other lands. The population of Europe would have been way too much for the local resources to have supported, triggering mass migration else where.
      $endgroup$
      – Sonvar
      3 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Sonvar, that's what the Crusades were for.
      $endgroup$
      – Ray Butterworth
      3 hours ago



















    0












    $begingroup$

    Limiting fossil fuels would only had delayed the Industrial Revolution from taking off. So that's not going to cut it.



    You'll need a massive shortage of materials, like metal ores being depleted or unavailable (think the collapse of the Ringworld civilization in Larry Niven's novels.)



    The world would have to have been very unusual, either most metals sunk to the core, or some process depleted them. Then you have humanity with nothing but stone, wood, bone and clay. Too extreme me thinks.



    One thing that could delay progress is Plague. Think some form of plague that's cyclic, like the cicadas, with a high mortality rate, but with the cycles changing unpredictable over time, tied to some migratory vector species.



    The Old World went to crap several times because of the Plague, and it were plagues introduced by Europeans that utterly destroyed all Pre-Columbian civilizations, from the agrarian all the way up to militarily strong, sophisticated empires.



    So if you throw a wrench at humanity in the form of a recurring, unstoppable, high mortality rate, then whatever remains of humanity will be forced to hunker down in fragmented areas, which grow and then break over and over.



    The cycles should be long enough for population to semi-bounce and spread and create new bunkers, and then to experience massive, widespread death when the plague comes.



    I have a hard time seeing humanity escaping from being illiterate nomads with a few feudal lords here and there.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$









    • 1




      $begingroup$
      The OP wanted 18th century, which even at the beginning thereof is substantially more advanced than illiterate nomads with feudal lords. The time was presumably chosen as being on the cusp of practical steam engines (Newcomen's steam engine was patented in 1712 but more primitive designs had been around longer)
      $endgroup$
      – pluckedkiwi
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      I'd say my idea of cyclic plagues would do the trick. Hit humanity hard and unpredictably every 3-4 generations. A few rounds of that, and humanity would go from 18th industrial revolution to illiterate nomads.
      $endgroup$
      – luis.espinal
      1 hour ago



















    0












    $begingroup$

    Don't change the planet, change the animals living on it.



    Do you remember the story of John Henry? As the story goes, he was the best railroad track layer in the country and he challenged a steam hammer to a track laying competition. If he could beat the steam hammer, then the railroad company would use manual labor instead. He was fast enough to win, but he died of exhaustion, and the railroad company used steam hammers anyway. But... what John Henry was just an average railroad track layer, and there where other guys much stronger and faster than he was who could leave a steamhammer in the dust?



    Now imagine a world where biology is just better across the board. Horses that haul several ton carts at interstate speeds, people who are dexterous enough to weave clothing at the pace of a loom or carve furniture at the speed of power tools, and Oxen that can plow and reap fields with all the speed of a tractor.



    You don't need to make animals Marvel action hero better, just better enough that creating a technology good enough to beat good-ol-fashioned elbow grease would require too many individual improvements to get from point A to point B for people to ever get there. After all: if steam engines and water mills are never needed, no one would have come up with all of the hundreds of incremental advancements in modern metallurgy and mechanics necessary to finally make people obsolete.



    The effect that this would have on society is that tools powered by man or animals would just be seen as better. After enough steam powered contraptions come and go, they would begin to be regarded with so much skepticism that even when someone does have a good enough idea to improve things, most people would laugh it off, IE: "A turbine engine? Haha, that's just a fancy steam engine. If I want to fly cross country, I'll just ride a giant bird like any reasonable human being. Good luck not exploding!"






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Technological development carries on even without the next marginal improvement being the one which renders it superior in all ways. Steam engines themselves went through a century of tweaking before coming up with something practical, and even then that is a generous description. It might reduce investment, but won't stop the technological progress of nerds investigating weird stuff just for the fun of it.
      $endgroup$
      – pluckedkiwi
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      This kind of gets out of the realm of reality and into more magic. Most biology is at or near its optimal performance levels now.
      $endgroup$
      – Sonvar
      3 hours ago



















    0












    $begingroup$

    While not quite at the same level of technology, I suspect better sanitation would be a small, reasonable change.



    With better sanitation, the black death never rips through Europe. The grip and authority of the church is never challenged in the same way. The population of Europe remains high, preventing wealth and knowledge from accumulating the same way. As a result, people remain in limbo, or at least advance much slower






    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    Selkie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






    $endgroup$





















      0












      $begingroup$

      Massive solar flares on a regular basis.



      Also, possibly, a much weaker planetary magnetic field.



      In 1989, a solar flare knocked out the power in Quebec. Big solar storms capable of knocking out power happen often enough but luckily most of them miss us. And we have a huge magnetic shield around the planet thanks to our active core so smaller storms don't have much impact. (Mars, for example, does not have this magnetic shield, which is a big problem for future colonization plans.)



      So, I'm thinking:



      The sun for this planet is far more active than ours. The planet is closer to it. The planet's magnetic field is weaker, offering it much less protection. Under conditions like this, my thinking that any sort of advance towards electricity tends to fail so regularly that it's simply not pursued as anything more than a fun hobby for toys that sometimes work. "Steampunk" (mechanical devices driven by simple engines) become normal and electricity is rarely if ever pursued.



      Also, they probably have really spectacular auroras.



      Further reading: https://earthsky.org/space/are-solar-storms-dangerous-to-us






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$





















        0












        $begingroup$

        The Industrial Revolution would have looked very different, if it could have happened at all, if not for surface deposits of coal (and secondarily oil).



        Coal is formed by the decomposition of plant matter in peat bogs by anaerobic bacteria. Therefore, a different microbiome during the carboniferous era (and later) might have produced much less coal near the surface where it could have been easily mined. This might involve a new species that was better at decomposing plant matter in water before it could become coal, either aerobic or anaerobic, or the kinds of bacteria that started the process never evolving.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$





















          0












          $begingroup$

          The history of mankind is one of progress. There must have been many opportunities missed by mankind, and yet here we are. "missing" the industrial rev would not stop progress, the technology would advance, only in a different way. This would be an interesting idea to work with... How would the technology advance differently?



          Let me know if you do anything with this, I would be interested to hear what you write.






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          NCT 127 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          $endgroup$









          • 1




            $begingroup$
            This seems to be more of a comment than an actual answer. Do check out the help center and tour so you can get a better idea of how Worldbuilding Stack Excchange works and what is expected of good queries and responses!
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            2 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @elemtilas Thanks I will.
            $endgroup$
            – NCT 127
            2 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! We're glad you could join us! When you have a moment, please click here to learn more about our culture and take our tour. You're proposing what we call a frame challenge. It's a perfectly valid answer, but ideally comes with a more thorough explanation of why the OP's original premise is inadequate or invalid. You obviously couldn't have known that without reading our Meta, but did a passable job nontheless. Cheers!
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            1 hour ago












          Your Answer








          StackExchange.ready(function() {
          var channelOptions = {
          tags: "".split(" "),
          id: "579"
          };
          initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

          StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
          // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
          if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
          StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
          createEditor();
          });
          }
          else {
          createEditor();
          }
          });

          function createEditor() {
          StackExchange.prepareEditor({
          heartbeatType: 'answer',
          autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
          convertImagesToLinks: false,
          noModals: true,
          showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
          reputationToPostImages: null,
          bindNavPrevention: true,
          postfix: "",
          imageUploader: {
          brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
          contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
          allowUrls: true
          },
          noCode: true, onDemand: true,
          discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
          ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
          });


          }
          });






          Sheikchilli is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










          draft saved

          draft discarded


















          StackExchange.ready(
          function () {
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f143852%2fwhat-aspect-of-planet-earth-must-be-changed-to-prevent-the-industrial-revolution%23new-answer', 'question_page');
          }
          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown

























          16 Answers
          16






          active

          oldest

          votes








          16 Answers
          16






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          15












          $begingroup$

          Limit the availability of raw materials, in particular fossil fuels and iron. Without fossil fuels you are limited to wood burning as a power source which is far less energy dense and a much more finite supply. Without iron it's much harder to make much of the earlier engineering feats.



          This means you don't get useful steam engines or railways which were two of the largest factors in industrialization. This would also extend out to mining which becomes harder, etc.



          The life of most people would not be impacted as much (iron, steel and in particular steel weapons would be extremely rare and valuable) but would continue as normal.



          Eventually you can expect people to find a way around these limitations so there would still be technological advancement but it would be much slower. So you can't achieve "for ever" but you could conceivably have centuries of millennia of very slow advancement before enough breakthroughs are made to unlock alternative technologies.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$









          • 5




            $begingroup$
            Really, just limit coal -- you'll keep steel an expensive luxury item, used in swords and armor (by the rich) and little else. You'll be centuries just developing the ability to drill for oil.
            $endgroup$
            – Zeiss Ikon
            12 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            what alternative technologies could these be?
            $endgroup$
            – Sheikchilli
            12 hours ago






          • 10




            $begingroup$
            The industrial revolution does not need steam engines. Water power works as well, and wood fired trains run fine too, even if not as efficient, and necessity might get people to look earlier at oil or gas fired trains, or use alcohol as fuel. Never underestimate the ingenuity of people, the absence of coal will change but not stop the industrial revolution
            $endgroup$
            – Whitecold
            11 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Alcohol! That's what I was looking for! Or biological gases!
            $endgroup$
            – genesis
            11 hours ago






          • 3




            $begingroup$
            @Whitecold Not only does water work, it did work. Factories had 50-100 years of using water power before steam engines replaced it. And even then, the layout of factories and the size of steam engines was dictated by driving the old water-powered machinery.
            $endgroup$
            – Graham
            7 hours ago
















          15












          $begingroup$

          Limit the availability of raw materials, in particular fossil fuels and iron. Without fossil fuels you are limited to wood burning as a power source which is far less energy dense and a much more finite supply. Without iron it's much harder to make much of the earlier engineering feats.



          This means you don't get useful steam engines or railways which were two of the largest factors in industrialization. This would also extend out to mining which becomes harder, etc.



          The life of most people would not be impacted as much (iron, steel and in particular steel weapons would be extremely rare and valuable) but would continue as normal.



          Eventually you can expect people to find a way around these limitations so there would still be technological advancement but it would be much slower. So you can't achieve "for ever" but you could conceivably have centuries of millennia of very slow advancement before enough breakthroughs are made to unlock alternative technologies.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$









          • 5




            $begingroup$
            Really, just limit coal -- you'll keep steel an expensive luxury item, used in swords and armor (by the rich) and little else. You'll be centuries just developing the ability to drill for oil.
            $endgroup$
            – Zeiss Ikon
            12 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            what alternative technologies could these be?
            $endgroup$
            – Sheikchilli
            12 hours ago






          • 10




            $begingroup$
            The industrial revolution does not need steam engines. Water power works as well, and wood fired trains run fine too, even if not as efficient, and necessity might get people to look earlier at oil or gas fired trains, or use alcohol as fuel. Never underestimate the ingenuity of people, the absence of coal will change but not stop the industrial revolution
            $endgroup$
            – Whitecold
            11 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Alcohol! That's what I was looking for! Or biological gases!
            $endgroup$
            – genesis
            11 hours ago






          • 3




            $begingroup$
            @Whitecold Not only does water work, it did work. Factories had 50-100 years of using water power before steam engines replaced it. And even then, the layout of factories and the size of steam engines was dictated by driving the old water-powered machinery.
            $endgroup$
            – Graham
            7 hours ago














          15












          15








          15





          $begingroup$

          Limit the availability of raw materials, in particular fossil fuels and iron. Without fossil fuels you are limited to wood burning as a power source which is far less energy dense and a much more finite supply. Without iron it's much harder to make much of the earlier engineering feats.



          This means you don't get useful steam engines or railways which were two of the largest factors in industrialization. This would also extend out to mining which becomes harder, etc.



          The life of most people would not be impacted as much (iron, steel and in particular steel weapons would be extremely rare and valuable) but would continue as normal.



          Eventually you can expect people to find a way around these limitations so there would still be technological advancement but it would be much slower. So you can't achieve "for ever" but you could conceivably have centuries of millennia of very slow advancement before enough breakthroughs are made to unlock alternative technologies.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          Limit the availability of raw materials, in particular fossil fuels and iron. Without fossil fuels you are limited to wood burning as a power source which is far less energy dense and a much more finite supply. Without iron it's much harder to make much of the earlier engineering feats.



          This means you don't get useful steam engines or railways which were two of the largest factors in industrialization. This would also extend out to mining which becomes harder, etc.



          The life of most people would not be impacted as much (iron, steel and in particular steel weapons would be extremely rare and valuable) but would continue as normal.



          Eventually you can expect people to find a way around these limitations so there would still be technological advancement but it would be much slower. So you can't achieve "for ever" but you could conceivably have centuries of millennia of very slow advancement before enough breakthroughs are made to unlock alternative technologies.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 12 hours ago









          Tim BTim B

          63.9k24178302




          63.9k24178302








          • 5




            $begingroup$
            Really, just limit coal -- you'll keep steel an expensive luxury item, used in swords and armor (by the rich) and little else. You'll be centuries just developing the ability to drill for oil.
            $endgroup$
            – Zeiss Ikon
            12 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            what alternative technologies could these be?
            $endgroup$
            – Sheikchilli
            12 hours ago






          • 10




            $begingroup$
            The industrial revolution does not need steam engines. Water power works as well, and wood fired trains run fine too, even if not as efficient, and necessity might get people to look earlier at oil or gas fired trains, or use alcohol as fuel. Never underestimate the ingenuity of people, the absence of coal will change but not stop the industrial revolution
            $endgroup$
            – Whitecold
            11 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Alcohol! That's what I was looking for! Or biological gases!
            $endgroup$
            – genesis
            11 hours ago






          • 3




            $begingroup$
            @Whitecold Not only does water work, it did work. Factories had 50-100 years of using water power before steam engines replaced it. And even then, the layout of factories and the size of steam engines was dictated by driving the old water-powered machinery.
            $endgroup$
            – Graham
            7 hours ago














          • 5




            $begingroup$
            Really, just limit coal -- you'll keep steel an expensive luxury item, used in swords and armor (by the rich) and little else. You'll be centuries just developing the ability to drill for oil.
            $endgroup$
            – Zeiss Ikon
            12 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            what alternative technologies could these be?
            $endgroup$
            – Sheikchilli
            12 hours ago






          • 10




            $begingroup$
            The industrial revolution does not need steam engines. Water power works as well, and wood fired trains run fine too, even if not as efficient, and necessity might get people to look earlier at oil or gas fired trains, or use alcohol as fuel. Never underestimate the ingenuity of people, the absence of coal will change but not stop the industrial revolution
            $endgroup$
            – Whitecold
            11 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Alcohol! That's what I was looking for! Or biological gases!
            $endgroup$
            – genesis
            11 hours ago






          • 3




            $begingroup$
            @Whitecold Not only does water work, it did work. Factories had 50-100 years of using water power before steam engines replaced it. And even then, the layout of factories and the size of steam engines was dictated by driving the old water-powered machinery.
            $endgroup$
            – Graham
            7 hours ago








          5




          5




          $begingroup$
          Really, just limit coal -- you'll keep steel an expensive luxury item, used in swords and armor (by the rich) and little else. You'll be centuries just developing the ability to drill for oil.
          $endgroup$
          – Zeiss Ikon
          12 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Really, just limit coal -- you'll keep steel an expensive luxury item, used in swords and armor (by the rich) and little else. You'll be centuries just developing the ability to drill for oil.
          $endgroup$
          – Zeiss Ikon
          12 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          what alternative technologies could these be?
          $endgroup$
          – Sheikchilli
          12 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          what alternative technologies could these be?
          $endgroup$
          – Sheikchilli
          12 hours ago




          10




          10




          $begingroup$
          The industrial revolution does not need steam engines. Water power works as well, and wood fired trains run fine too, even if not as efficient, and necessity might get people to look earlier at oil or gas fired trains, or use alcohol as fuel. Never underestimate the ingenuity of people, the absence of coal will change but not stop the industrial revolution
          $endgroup$
          – Whitecold
          11 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          The industrial revolution does not need steam engines. Water power works as well, and wood fired trains run fine too, even if not as efficient, and necessity might get people to look earlier at oil or gas fired trains, or use alcohol as fuel. Never underestimate the ingenuity of people, the absence of coal will change but not stop the industrial revolution
          $endgroup$
          – Whitecold
          11 hours ago




          1




          1




          $begingroup$
          Alcohol! That's what I was looking for! Or biological gases!
          $endgroup$
          – genesis
          11 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Alcohol! That's what I was looking for! Or biological gases!
          $endgroup$
          – genesis
          11 hours ago




          3




          3




          $begingroup$
          @Whitecold Not only does water work, it did work. Factories had 50-100 years of using water power before steam engines replaced it. And even then, the layout of factories and the size of steam engines was dictated by driving the old water-powered machinery.
          $endgroup$
          – Graham
          7 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          @Whitecold Not only does water work, it did work. Factories had 50-100 years of using water power before steam engines replaced it. And even then, the layout of factories and the size of steam engines was dictated by driving the old water-powered machinery.
          $endgroup$
          – Graham
          7 hours ago











          11












          $begingroup$

          That is far too advanced to expect technology to remain static for long.
          Technology advances without new resources - new resources certainly shape how technology advances, but better methods and processes develop using the same resource constraints.



          Coal is not the cause of industrialization, so eliminating it will not prevent advancement. This may be suggested as people misunderstand the industrial revolution and think it was caused by steam-power, but the industrial revolution was already well underway before that became widespread (causality runs the other way - it is the industrial revolution which leads to the development of steam power as innovators sought ways to feed the rapidly growing power needs).
          Charcoal is nearly as good for most purposes anyway, so you would see all the effort that went into coal mining go into tree farms and kilns, and likely transport of charcoal from areas with plentiful forests.



          Water power was extensively used for industrial purposes but was supplanted because conditions made coal-fired steam engines cheaper. Canals were being built at a rapid place to facilitate trade before railroads became cheaper. Windmills were used where water was either scarce or slow-moving (I've been fascinated by the Dutch sawmills). While certainly more expensive and more constrained than steam engines, these still power development.



          Imposing sufficient constraints to prevent people developing beyond the 18th century standards would be sufficient constraints that they would be unable to attain even that level of development.



          Developments like capitalism, assembly-line production, standardized replaceable parts, cargo containerization, and most of the truly innovative changes which allowed the amazing economic development we enjoy today do not rely upon any resources beyond the human mind.



          The constraint will need to be societal in nature, like a strong religious prohibition on any changes, but that will not last forever as there will always be those who question.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            I have to disagree. You can sustain limited industrialization with sources such as water wheels, charcoal burning engines, etc. There just is not enough space to grow enough trees to replace coal as a fuel source. Obviously it will not stop it completely but progress will stall once it is not possible to kick-start it with millions of years worth of stored solar power in the form of fossil fuels.
            $endgroup$
            – Tim B
            9 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @TimB I don't see this argument work in light of what the answer says about wind and water power. There is possiblity of moving from water to gas, for example, bypassing coal. Obviously you would have limitations due to coal used extensively in heating things, but the problem doesn't appear insurmountable.
            $endgroup$
            – Gnudiff
            9 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            @TimB Not only was the industrial revolution well under way before steam engines (whole factories were built around waterwheels and it took a long time after their invention for steam engines to replace waterwheels), but coal is not necessary. Had coal not been available, industrial processes would have shifted form rather than been impossible. In the United States, where trees were certainly plentiful, charcoal was preferred until the mid 19th century and at least one charcoal blast furnace lasted until the end of WW2.
            $endgroup$
            – pluckedkiwi
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Charcoal would have become prohibitively expensive also. As the demand for charcoal rose without coal replacing it, many countries would have deforested their landscape. Eventually, they would have to rely on water or wind power, but with devastated ecosystems.
            $endgroup$
            – Sonvar
            3 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @Sonvar that would not have stopped people from using charcoal, many countries deforested their land anyway. Really the big invention that kick starts the industrial revolution is the invention of the metal lathe which creates the ability to make precision machinery.
            $endgroup$
            – John
            37 mins ago


















          11












          $begingroup$

          That is far too advanced to expect technology to remain static for long.
          Technology advances without new resources - new resources certainly shape how technology advances, but better methods and processes develop using the same resource constraints.



          Coal is not the cause of industrialization, so eliminating it will not prevent advancement. This may be suggested as people misunderstand the industrial revolution and think it was caused by steam-power, but the industrial revolution was already well underway before that became widespread (causality runs the other way - it is the industrial revolution which leads to the development of steam power as innovators sought ways to feed the rapidly growing power needs).
          Charcoal is nearly as good for most purposes anyway, so you would see all the effort that went into coal mining go into tree farms and kilns, and likely transport of charcoal from areas with plentiful forests.



          Water power was extensively used for industrial purposes but was supplanted because conditions made coal-fired steam engines cheaper. Canals were being built at a rapid place to facilitate trade before railroads became cheaper. Windmills were used where water was either scarce or slow-moving (I've been fascinated by the Dutch sawmills). While certainly more expensive and more constrained than steam engines, these still power development.



          Imposing sufficient constraints to prevent people developing beyond the 18th century standards would be sufficient constraints that they would be unable to attain even that level of development.



          Developments like capitalism, assembly-line production, standardized replaceable parts, cargo containerization, and most of the truly innovative changes which allowed the amazing economic development we enjoy today do not rely upon any resources beyond the human mind.



          The constraint will need to be societal in nature, like a strong religious prohibition on any changes, but that will not last forever as there will always be those who question.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            I have to disagree. You can sustain limited industrialization with sources such as water wheels, charcoal burning engines, etc. There just is not enough space to grow enough trees to replace coal as a fuel source. Obviously it will not stop it completely but progress will stall once it is not possible to kick-start it with millions of years worth of stored solar power in the form of fossil fuels.
            $endgroup$
            – Tim B
            9 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @TimB I don't see this argument work in light of what the answer says about wind and water power. There is possiblity of moving from water to gas, for example, bypassing coal. Obviously you would have limitations due to coal used extensively in heating things, but the problem doesn't appear insurmountable.
            $endgroup$
            – Gnudiff
            9 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            @TimB Not only was the industrial revolution well under way before steam engines (whole factories were built around waterwheels and it took a long time after their invention for steam engines to replace waterwheels), but coal is not necessary. Had coal not been available, industrial processes would have shifted form rather than been impossible. In the United States, where trees were certainly plentiful, charcoal was preferred until the mid 19th century and at least one charcoal blast furnace lasted until the end of WW2.
            $endgroup$
            – pluckedkiwi
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Charcoal would have become prohibitively expensive also. As the demand for charcoal rose without coal replacing it, many countries would have deforested their landscape. Eventually, they would have to rely on water or wind power, but with devastated ecosystems.
            $endgroup$
            – Sonvar
            3 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @Sonvar that would not have stopped people from using charcoal, many countries deforested their land anyway. Really the big invention that kick starts the industrial revolution is the invention of the metal lathe which creates the ability to make precision machinery.
            $endgroup$
            – John
            37 mins ago
















          11












          11








          11





          $begingroup$

          That is far too advanced to expect technology to remain static for long.
          Technology advances without new resources - new resources certainly shape how technology advances, but better methods and processes develop using the same resource constraints.



          Coal is not the cause of industrialization, so eliminating it will not prevent advancement. This may be suggested as people misunderstand the industrial revolution and think it was caused by steam-power, but the industrial revolution was already well underway before that became widespread (causality runs the other way - it is the industrial revolution which leads to the development of steam power as innovators sought ways to feed the rapidly growing power needs).
          Charcoal is nearly as good for most purposes anyway, so you would see all the effort that went into coal mining go into tree farms and kilns, and likely transport of charcoal from areas with plentiful forests.



          Water power was extensively used for industrial purposes but was supplanted because conditions made coal-fired steam engines cheaper. Canals were being built at a rapid place to facilitate trade before railroads became cheaper. Windmills were used where water was either scarce or slow-moving (I've been fascinated by the Dutch sawmills). While certainly more expensive and more constrained than steam engines, these still power development.



          Imposing sufficient constraints to prevent people developing beyond the 18th century standards would be sufficient constraints that they would be unable to attain even that level of development.



          Developments like capitalism, assembly-line production, standardized replaceable parts, cargo containerization, and most of the truly innovative changes which allowed the amazing economic development we enjoy today do not rely upon any resources beyond the human mind.



          The constraint will need to be societal in nature, like a strong religious prohibition on any changes, but that will not last forever as there will always be those who question.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          That is far too advanced to expect technology to remain static for long.
          Technology advances without new resources - new resources certainly shape how technology advances, but better methods and processes develop using the same resource constraints.



          Coal is not the cause of industrialization, so eliminating it will not prevent advancement. This may be suggested as people misunderstand the industrial revolution and think it was caused by steam-power, but the industrial revolution was already well underway before that became widespread (causality runs the other way - it is the industrial revolution which leads to the development of steam power as innovators sought ways to feed the rapidly growing power needs).
          Charcoal is nearly as good for most purposes anyway, so you would see all the effort that went into coal mining go into tree farms and kilns, and likely transport of charcoal from areas with plentiful forests.



          Water power was extensively used for industrial purposes but was supplanted because conditions made coal-fired steam engines cheaper. Canals were being built at a rapid place to facilitate trade before railroads became cheaper. Windmills were used where water was either scarce or slow-moving (I've been fascinated by the Dutch sawmills). While certainly more expensive and more constrained than steam engines, these still power development.



          Imposing sufficient constraints to prevent people developing beyond the 18th century standards would be sufficient constraints that they would be unable to attain even that level of development.



          Developments like capitalism, assembly-line production, standardized replaceable parts, cargo containerization, and most of the truly innovative changes which allowed the amazing economic development we enjoy today do not rely upon any resources beyond the human mind.



          The constraint will need to be societal in nature, like a strong religious prohibition on any changes, but that will not last forever as there will always be those who question.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 11 hours ago









          pluckedkiwipluckedkiwi

          3,874926




          3,874926












          • $begingroup$
            I have to disagree. You can sustain limited industrialization with sources such as water wheels, charcoal burning engines, etc. There just is not enough space to grow enough trees to replace coal as a fuel source. Obviously it will not stop it completely but progress will stall once it is not possible to kick-start it with millions of years worth of stored solar power in the form of fossil fuels.
            $endgroup$
            – Tim B
            9 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @TimB I don't see this argument work in light of what the answer says about wind and water power. There is possiblity of moving from water to gas, for example, bypassing coal. Obviously you would have limitations due to coal used extensively in heating things, but the problem doesn't appear insurmountable.
            $endgroup$
            – Gnudiff
            9 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            @TimB Not only was the industrial revolution well under way before steam engines (whole factories were built around waterwheels and it took a long time after their invention for steam engines to replace waterwheels), but coal is not necessary. Had coal not been available, industrial processes would have shifted form rather than been impossible. In the United States, where trees were certainly plentiful, charcoal was preferred until the mid 19th century and at least one charcoal blast furnace lasted until the end of WW2.
            $endgroup$
            – pluckedkiwi
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Charcoal would have become prohibitively expensive also. As the demand for charcoal rose without coal replacing it, many countries would have deforested their landscape. Eventually, they would have to rely on water or wind power, but with devastated ecosystems.
            $endgroup$
            – Sonvar
            3 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @Sonvar that would not have stopped people from using charcoal, many countries deforested their land anyway. Really the big invention that kick starts the industrial revolution is the invention of the metal lathe which creates the ability to make precision machinery.
            $endgroup$
            – John
            37 mins ago




















          • $begingroup$
            I have to disagree. You can sustain limited industrialization with sources such as water wheels, charcoal burning engines, etc. There just is not enough space to grow enough trees to replace coal as a fuel source. Obviously it will not stop it completely but progress will stall once it is not possible to kick-start it with millions of years worth of stored solar power in the form of fossil fuels.
            $endgroup$
            – Tim B
            9 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @TimB I don't see this argument work in light of what the answer says about wind and water power. There is possiblity of moving from water to gas, for example, bypassing coal. Obviously you would have limitations due to coal used extensively in heating things, but the problem doesn't appear insurmountable.
            $endgroup$
            – Gnudiff
            9 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            @TimB Not only was the industrial revolution well under way before steam engines (whole factories were built around waterwheels and it took a long time after their invention for steam engines to replace waterwheels), but coal is not necessary. Had coal not been available, industrial processes would have shifted form rather than been impossible. In the United States, where trees were certainly plentiful, charcoal was preferred until the mid 19th century and at least one charcoal blast furnace lasted until the end of WW2.
            $endgroup$
            – pluckedkiwi
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Charcoal would have become prohibitively expensive also. As the demand for charcoal rose without coal replacing it, many countries would have deforested their landscape. Eventually, they would have to rely on water or wind power, but with devastated ecosystems.
            $endgroup$
            – Sonvar
            3 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @Sonvar that would not have stopped people from using charcoal, many countries deforested their land anyway. Really the big invention that kick starts the industrial revolution is the invention of the metal lathe which creates the ability to make precision machinery.
            $endgroup$
            – John
            37 mins ago


















          $begingroup$
          I have to disagree. You can sustain limited industrialization with sources such as water wheels, charcoal burning engines, etc. There just is not enough space to grow enough trees to replace coal as a fuel source. Obviously it will not stop it completely but progress will stall once it is not possible to kick-start it with millions of years worth of stored solar power in the form of fossil fuels.
          $endgroup$
          – Tim B
          9 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          I have to disagree. You can sustain limited industrialization with sources such as water wheels, charcoal burning engines, etc. There just is not enough space to grow enough trees to replace coal as a fuel source. Obviously it will not stop it completely but progress will stall once it is not possible to kick-start it with millions of years worth of stored solar power in the form of fossil fuels.
          $endgroup$
          – Tim B
          9 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          @TimB I don't see this argument work in light of what the answer says about wind and water power. There is possiblity of moving from water to gas, for example, bypassing coal. Obviously you would have limitations due to coal used extensively in heating things, but the problem doesn't appear insurmountable.
          $endgroup$
          – Gnudiff
          9 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          @TimB I don't see this argument work in light of what the answer says about wind and water power. There is possiblity of moving from water to gas, for example, bypassing coal. Obviously you would have limitations due to coal used extensively in heating things, but the problem doesn't appear insurmountable.
          $endgroup$
          – Gnudiff
          9 hours ago




          1




          1




          $begingroup$
          @TimB Not only was the industrial revolution well under way before steam engines (whole factories were built around waterwheels and it took a long time after their invention for steam engines to replace waterwheels), but coal is not necessary. Had coal not been available, industrial processes would have shifted form rather than been impossible. In the United States, where trees were certainly plentiful, charcoal was preferred until the mid 19th century and at least one charcoal blast furnace lasted until the end of WW2.
          $endgroup$
          – pluckedkiwi
          7 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          @TimB Not only was the industrial revolution well under way before steam engines (whole factories were built around waterwheels and it took a long time after their invention for steam engines to replace waterwheels), but coal is not necessary. Had coal not been available, industrial processes would have shifted form rather than been impossible. In the United States, where trees were certainly plentiful, charcoal was preferred until the mid 19th century and at least one charcoal blast furnace lasted until the end of WW2.
          $endgroup$
          – pluckedkiwi
          7 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          Charcoal would have become prohibitively expensive also. As the demand for charcoal rose without coal replacing it, many countries would have deforested their landscape. Eventually, they would have to rely on water or wind power, but with devastated ecosystems.
          $endgroup$
          – Sonvar
          3 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Charcoal would have become prohibitively expensive also. As the demand for charcoal rose without coal replacing it, many countries would have deforested their landscape. Eventually, they would have to rely on water or wind power, but with devastated ecosystems.
          $endgroup$
          – Sonvar
          3 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          @Sonvar that would not have stopped people from using charcoal, many countries deforested their land anyway. Really the big invention that kick starts the industrial revolution is the invention of the metal lathe which creates the ability to make precision machinery.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          37 mins ago






          $begingroup$
          @Sonvar that would not have stopped people from using charcoal, many countries deforested their land anyway. Really the big invention that kick starts the industrial revolution is the invention of the metal lathe which creates the ability to make precision machinery.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          37 mins ago













          3












          $begingroup$

          I think that you will find that strong property rights are a common characteristic of peoples and nations that innovate in the way the English did in creating the industrial revolution. Why build a mill if somebody else is going to destroy it or take it away from you?






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Peter Knibbe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Don't forget copyright, patent, and trademark laws. While they stifle certain kinds of innovation, they allow the big leaps that bring technology forward by protecting large capital investments.
            $endgroup$
            – Nosajimiki
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Speaking of property rights, there are some theories which claim industrial revolution should be traced to the process of enclosure in England, which sparked development and thus why they lead in industrialization.
            $endgroup$
            – pluckedkiwi
            6 hours ago
















          3












          $begingroup$

          I think that you will find that strong property rights are a common characteristic of peoples and nations that innovate in the way the English did in creating the industrial revolution. Why build a mill if somebody else is going to destroy it or take it away from you?






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Peter Knibbe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Don't forget copyright, patent, and trademark laws. While they stifle certain kinds of innovation, they allow the big leaps that bring technology forward by protecting large capital investments.
            $endgroup$
            – Nosajimiki
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Speaking of property rights, there are some theories which claim industrial revolution should be traced to the process of enclosure in England, which sparked development and thus why they lead in industrialization.
            $endgroup$
            – pluckedkiwi
            6 hours ago














          3












          3








          3





          $begingroup$

          I think that you will find that strong property rights are a common characteristic of peoples and nations that innovate in the way the English did in creating the industrial revolution. Why build a mill if somebody else is going to destroy it or take it away from you?






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Peter Knibbe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          $endgroup$



          I think that you will find that strong property rights are a common characteristic of peoples and nations that innovate in the way the English did in creating the industrial revolution. Why build a mill if somebody else is going to destroy it or take it away from you?







          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Peter Knibbe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer






          New contributor




          Peter Knibbe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          answered 11 hours ago









          Peter KnibbePeter Knibbe

          311




          311




          New contributor




          Peter Knibbe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.





          New contributor





          Peter Knibbe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          Peter Knibbe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.












          • $begingroup$
            Don't forget copyright, patent, and trademark laws. While they stifle certain kinds of innovation, they allow the big leaps that bring technology forward by protecting large capital investments.
            $endgroup$
            – Nosajimiki
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Speaking of property rights, there are some theories which claim industrial revolution should be traced to the process of enclosure in England, which sparked development and thus why they lead in industrialization.
            $endgroup$
            – pluckedkiwi
            6 hours ago


















          • $begingroup$
            Don't forget copyright, patent, and trademark laws. While they stifle certain kinds of innovation, they allow the big leaps that bring technology forward by protecting large capital investments.
            $endgroup$
            – Nosajimiki
            7 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Speaking of property rights, there are some theories which claim industrial revolution should be traced to the process of enclosure in England, which sparked development and thus why they lead in industrialization.
            $endgroup$
            – pluckedkiwi
            6 hours ago
















          $begingroup$
          Don't forget copyright, patent, and trademark laws. While they stifle certain kinds of innovation, they allow the big leaps that bring technology forward by protecting large capital investments.
          $endgroup$
          – Nosajimiki
          7 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Don't forget copyright, patent, and trademark laws. While they stifle certain kinds of innovation, they allow the big leaps that bring technology forward by protecting large capital investments.
          $endgroup$
          – Nosajimiki
          7 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          Speaking of property rights, there are some theories which claim industrial revolution should be traced to the process of enclosure in England, which sparked development and thus why they lead in industrialization.
          $endgroup$
          – pluckedkiwi
          6 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Speaking of property rights, there are some theories which claim industrial revolution should be traced to the process of enclosure in England, which sparked development and thus why they lead in industrialization.
          $endgroup$
          – pluckedkiwi
          6 hours ago











          3












          $begingroup$

          The (misconception here, there's been many industrial revolutions in major & minor countries over quite some time - even Switzerland had some) Industrial Revolutions have not just been about technology, but also about society.



          The change from homeworking and small manufacturing to central factories and exporting goods had to go hand-in-hand with changes in how society worked and accepted these paradigm shifts.





          • People had to have reasons to work in these new factories powering new industries.


          • Laws had to be accommodating these new structures and allow for them - many medieval laws actively prevented any advances that destroyed working places, this changed with the renaissance..


          Instead of removing resources, prevent changes in law - thus prevent reformation of societies. This will prevent any advances in industrialization and technology much longer than removing some resources.





          TL;DR You can't prevent industrialization by getting rid of resources, but you can delay any huge technological advances by keeping society static.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$


















            3












            $begingroup$

            The (misconception here, there's been many industrial revolutions in major & minor countries over quite some time - even Switzerland had some) Industrial Revolutions have not just been about technology, but also about society.



            The change from homeworking and small manufacturing to central factories and exporting goods had to go hand-in-hand with changes in how society worked and accepted these paradigm shifts.





            • People had to have reasons to work in these new factories powering new industries.


            • Laws had to be accommodating these new structures and allow for them - many medieval laws actively prevented any advances that destroyed working places, this changed with the renaissance..


            Instead of removing resources, prevent changes in law - thus prevent reformation of societies. This will prevent any advances in industrialization and technology much longer than removing some resources.





            TL;DR You can't prevent industrialization by getting rid of resources, but you can delay any huge technological advances by keeping society static.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$
















              3












              3








              3





              $begingroup$

              The (misconception here, there's been many industrial revolutions in major & minor countries over quite some time - even Switzerland had some) Industrial Revolutions have not just been about technology, but also about society.



              The change from homeworking and small manufacturing to central factories and exporting goods had to go hand-in-hand with changes in how society worked and accepted these paradigm shifts.





              • People had to have reasons to work in these new factories powering new industries.


              • Laws had to be accommodating these new structures and allow for them - many medieval laws actively prevented any advances that destroyed working places, this changed with the renaissance..


              Instead of removing resources, prevent changes in law - thus prevent reformation of societies. This will prevent any advances in industrialization and technology much longer than removing some resources.





              TL;DR You can't prevent industrialization by getting rid of resources, but you can delay any huge technological advances by keeping society static.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              The (misconception here, there's been many industrial revolutions in major & minor countries over quite some time - even Switzerland had some) Industrial Revolutions have not just been about technology, but also about society.



              The change from homeworking and small manufacturing to central factories and exporting goods had to go hand-in-hand with changes in how society worked and accepted these paradigm shifts.





              • People had to have reasons to work in these new factories powering new industries.


              • Laws had to be accommodating these new structures and allow for them - many medieval laws actively prevented any advances that destroyed working places, this changed with the renaissance..


              Instead of removing resources, prevent changes in law - thus prevent reformation of societies. This will prevent any advances in industrialization and technology much longer than removing some resources.





              TL;DR You can't prevent industrialization by getting rid of resources, but you can delay any huge technological advances by keeping society static.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 11 hours ago









              dot_Sp0Tdot_Sp0T

              7,67124491




              7,67124491























                  2












                  $begingroup$

                  You might not need a reason. We assume that just because something has happened to us it seems natural but consider that in Australia they never invented bow and arrow.



                  There might also be fewer political or economic forces to make such inventions attractive. Given good farmland humans might be able to live on very few hours of work a day and be perfectly happy. I think Harari's Sapiens was discussing this.



                  I'm also not sure if you would still consider this industrial revolution but it is not (immediately) obvious (to me, at least) that many of the achievements of the steam engine could not have been done without it. Wind energy was already popular.






                  share|improve this answer










                  New contributor




                  genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.






                  $endgroup$









                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    There are many indigenous peoples around the world who never made it to the industrial age - even to the present day. The key is to have a society whose sole job is to sustain their lifestyle. Once you give people 'free time' to invent, they will find new things. Reading and writing allow people to advance because they build their knowledge base.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Tracy Cramer
                    9 hours ago


















                  2












                  $begingroup$

                  You might not need a reason. We assume that just because something has happened to us it seems natural but consider that in Australia they never invented bow and arrow.



                  There might also be fewer political or economic forces to make such inventions attractive. Given good farmland humans might be able to live on very few hours of work a day and be perfectly happy. I think Harari's Sapiens was discussing this.



                  I'm also not sure if you would still consider this industrial revolution but it is not (immediately) obvious (to me, at least) that many of the achievements of the steam engine could not have been done without it. Wind energy was already popular.






                  share|improve this answer










                  New contributor




                  genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.






                  $endgroup$









                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    There are many indigenous peoples around the world who never made it to the industrial age - even to the present day. The key is to have a society whose sole job is to sustain their lifestyle. Once you give people 'free time' to invent, they will find new things. Reading and writing allow people to advance because they build their knowledge base.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Tracy Cramer
                    9 hours ago
















                  2












                  2








                  2





                  $begingroup$

                  You might not need a reason. We assume that just because something has happened to us it seems natural but consider that in Australia they never invented bow and arrow.



                  There might also be fewer political or economic forces to make such inventions attractive. Given good farmland humans might be able to live on very few hours of work a day and be perfectly happy. I think Harari's Sapiens was discussing this.



                  I'm also not sure if you would still consider this industrial revolution but it is not (immediately) obvious (to me, at least) that many of the achievements of the steam engine could not have been done without it. Wind energy was already popular.






                  share|improve this answer










                  New contributor




                  genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.






                  $endgroup$



                  You might not need a reason. We assume that just because something has happened to us it seems natural but consider that in Australia they never invented bow and arrow.



                  There might also be fewer political or economic forces to make such inventions attractive. Given good farmland humans might be able to live on very few hours of work a day and be perfectly happy. I think Harari's Sapiens was discussing this.



                  I'm also not sure if you would still consider this industrial revolution but it is not (immediately) obvious (to me, at least) that many of the achievements of the steam engine could not have been done without it. Wind energy was already popular.







                  share|improve this answer










                  New contributor




                  genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.









                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 11 hours ago





















                  New contributor




                  genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.









                  answered 12 hours ago









                  genesisgenesis

                  3815




                  3815




                  New contributor




                  genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.





                  New contributor





                  genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.






                  genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.








                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    There are many indigenous peoples around the world who never made it to the industrial age - even to the present day. The key is to have a society whose sole job is to sustain their lifestyle. Once you give people 'free time' to invent, they will find new things. Reading and writing allow people to advance because they build their knowledge base.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Tracy Cramer
                    9 hours ago
















                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    There are many indigenous peoples around the world who never made it to the industrial age - even to the present day. The key is to have a society whose sole job is to sustain their lifestyle. Once you give people 'free time' to invent, they will find new things. Reading and writing allow people to advance because they build their knowledge base.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Tracy Cramer
                    9 hours ago










                  1




                  1




                  $begingroup$
                  There are many indigenous peoples around the world who never made it to the industrial age - even to the present day. The key is to have a society whose sole job is to sustain their lifestyle. Once you give people 'free time' to invent, they will find new things. Reading and writing allow people to advance because they build their knowledge base.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Tracy Cramer
                  9 hours ago






                  $begingroup$
                  There are many indigenous peoples around the world who never made it to the industrial age - even to the present day. The key is to have a society whose sole job is to sustain their lifestyle. Once you give people 'free time' to invent, they will find new things. Reading and writing allow people to advance because they build their knowledge base.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Tracy Cramer
                  9 hours ago













                  1












                  $begingroup$

                  It's been argued the fact that Western Europe was splintered into competing and often warring kingdoms, with an independent Catholic Church, following the fall of the Roman Empire contributed to a culture of learning and technological innovation that eventually led to the Industrial Revolution.



                  Yes, Europe benefited from a unique geography, fertile soils, and a rich abundance of mineral resources. However if Europe had been united under one secular and/or religious ruler, as in China or the Ottoman Empire, new and disruptive thinking, financial innovations, and technologies could have been easily suppressed.



                  If the Roman Empire had persisted under one emperor, and indeed expanded into Germany, Eastern Europe, and perhaps farther east, I can't see the Renaissance, the Scientific Revolution, or the Industrial Revolution happening in Europe or anywhere else on Earth, at least not by the present time.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$













                  • $begingroup$
                    The Roman Empire, in many ways, was already at the door step to the industrial revolution. they had power consumption needs to power their lives, hey had some centralized industry to satisfy their needs and for trade, and they were developing new technologies and techniques to make their lives better. Problem was, Rome was very corrupt and only the rich and powerful were protected from a thuggish government. Only a small group oligarchs were able to invest in large capital projects. So progress was slow
                    $endgroup$
                    – Sonvar
                    3 hours ago
















                  1












                  $begingroup$

                  It's been argued the fact that Western Europe was splintered into competing and often warring kingdoms, with an independent Catholic Church, following the fall of the Roman Empire contributed to a culture of learning and technological innovation that eventually led to the Industrial Revolution.



                  Yes, Europe benefited from a unique geography, fertile soils, and a rich abundance of mineral resources. However if Europe had been united under one secular and/or religious ruler, as in China or the Ottoman Empire, new and disruptive thinking, financial innovations, and technologies could have been easily suppressed.



                  If the Roman Empire had persisted under one emperor, and indeed expanded into Germany, Eastern Europe, and perhaps farther east, I can't see the Renaissance, the Scientific Revolution, or the Industrial Revolution happening in Europe or anywhere else on Earth, at least not by the present time.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$













                  • $begingroup$
                    The Roman Empire, in many ways, was already at the door step to the industrial revolution. they had power consumption needs to power their lives, hey had some centralized industry to satisfy their needs and for trade, and they were developing new technologies and techniques to make their lives better. Problem was, Rome was very corrupt and only the rich and powerful were protected from a thuggish government. Only a small group oligarchs were able to invest in large capital projects. So progress was slow
                    $endgroup$
                    – Sonvar
                    3 hours ago














                  1












                  1








                  1





                  $begingroup$

                  It's been argued the fact that Western Europe was splintered into competing and often warring kingdoms, with an independent Catholic Church, following the fall of the Roman Empire contributed to a culture of learning and technological innovation that eventually led to the Industrial Revolution.



                  Yes, Europe benefited from a unique geography, fertile soils, and a rich abundance of mineral resources. However if Europe had been united under one secular and/or religious ruler, as in China or the Ottoman Empire, new and disruptive thinking, financial innovations, and technologies could have been easily suppressed.



                  If the Roman Empire had persisted under one emperor, and indeed expanded into Germany, Eastern Europe, and perhaps farther east, I can't see the Renaissance, the Scientific Revolution, or the Industrial Revolution happening in Europe or anywhere else on Earth, at least not by the present time.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  It's been argued the fact that Western Europe was splintered into competing and often warring kingdoms, with an independent Catholic Church, following the fall of the Roman Empire contributed to a culture of learning and technological innovation that eventually led to the Industrial Revolution.



                  Yes, Europe benefited from a unique geography, fertile soils, and a rich abundance of mineral resources. However if Europe had been united under one secular and/or religious ruler, as in China or the Ottoman Empire, new and disruptive thinking, financial innovations, and technologies could have been easily suppressed.



                  If the Roman Empire had persisted under one emperor, and indeed expanded into Germany, Eastern Europe, and perhaps farther east, I can't see the Renaissance, the Scientific Revolution, or the Industrial Revolution happening in Europe or anywhere else on Earth, at least not by the present time.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 7 hours ago









                  RobertFRobertF

                  1574




                  1574












                  • $begingroup$
                    The Roman Empire, in many ways, was already at the door step to the industrial revolution. they had power consumption needs to power their lives, hey had some centralized industry to satisfy their needs and for trade, and they were developing new technologies and techniques to make their lives better. Problem was, Rome was very corrupt and only the rich and powerful were protected from a thuggish government. Only a small group oligarchs were able to invest in large capital projects. So progress was slow
                    $endgroup$
                    – Sonvar
                    3 hours ago


















                  • $begingroup$
                    The Roman Empire, in many ways, was already at the door step to the industrial revolution. they had power consumption needs to power their lives, hey had some centralized industry to satisfy their needs and for trade, and they were developing new technologies and techniques to make their lives better. Problem was, Rome was very corrupt and only the rich and powerful were protected from a thuggish government. Only a small group oligarchs were able to invest in large capital projects. So progress was slow
                    $endgroup$
                    – Sonvar
                    3 hours ago
















                  $begingroup$
                  The Roman Empire, in many ways, was already at the door step to the industrial revolution. they had power consumption needs to power their lives, hey had some centralized industry to satisfy their needs and for trade, and they were developing new technologies and techniques to make their lives better. Problem was, Rome was very corrupt and only the rich and powerful were protected from a thuggish government. Only a small group oligarchs were able to invest in large capital projects. So progress was slow
                  $endgroup$
                  – Sonvar
                  3 hours ago




                  $begingroup$
                  The Roman Empire, in many ways, was already at the door step to the industrial revolution. they had power consumption needs to power their lives, hey had some centralized industry to satisfy their needs and for trade, and they were developing new technologies and techniques to make their lives better. Problem was, Rome was very corrupt and only the rich and powerful were protected from a thuggish government. Only a small group oligarchs were able to invest in large capital projects. So progress was slow
                  $endgroup$
                  – Sonvar
                  3 hours ago











                  1












                  $begingroup$

                  Here are a number of ideas, some are more speculative and handwaving than others.




                  • No Coal Deposits


                  Have some kind of bacteria that rapidly decomposes dead wood develope when trees come around. They would need to be quite resilient and have some extremophile cousins to decompose wood in anaerobic environments.




                  • No Colonialism


                  This is really speculative but could work story wise. Have a ghost plage-ship reach the America 200 years before Columbus or have the Norse colonies on Vinland and Markland succeed. Both events would allow the Americans to develop immunities to European diseases, which killed 95% of the population before the Europeans came to colonize. The technological advantage would not have been sufficient to conquer native superpowers during that time. No American colonial nations would hamper European economies, because there would be fewer export markets. Without the colonial successes in the Americas the tedious adventures in Africa, South-East-Asia and India wouldn´t have a base. Especially the case of India is interesting, as the looting of India by the British and it's use as a resource mine and market might have been crucial for the industrial revolution to happen.




                  • Slavery


                  Brasil isn´t a world power. That´s really odd as it is a huge, resource and manpower-rich country. The reason for that is that they didn´t industrialized, as their economy was slave-based. European economies weren´t slave-based because the Pope prohibited the enslavement of the recently baptized in 1435. Never let this happen and you got slave economies in Europe.



                  All that said I don´t feel that option two and three will be permanent. Option one with no coal means no industry or the rapid collapse of it when the forests are all cut down. An example of this would be the Mioan copper industry on Crete. This would hit all the countries equally.
                  Options two and three would only hamper Europe. In that case, my money would be on one of the Mughal Empires Indian successor states or Japan starting the spiral of technological development. India had been one of the most industrialized regions of the world for millennia until the British came plundering. Japan had already developed high-sea ships, but they were shocked into isolationism upon contact with the more advanced Europeans. Keep the Europeans primitive and a Japanese colonial Empire could be the first step in and eastern technology arms race with Korea and Qing. But both the latter options would give you a few centuries longer of pre-industrial Europe to play around with.






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$









                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    None of these actually affect the industrial revolution. Coal comes close, but that is largely a misconception due to coal being heavily used in how the industrial revolution developed. Slavery is absolutely irrelevant (maybe even retards development), and colonialism likely cost more than it provided. There is simply no mechanism for those to be necessary for an industrial revolution.
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    11 hours ago






                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    @pluckedkiwi 1. How is coal a misconception? Without it as a dense energy surce there will be no steam engines. Wood won´t work due to deforestation. 2. Slavery is absolutely relevant, as the industrial revolution was about making work more efficient. Slaves are cheap workers who can be bread en masse if needed. Additionally slaves don´t buy as many products as free workers, so the markets would not demand industrialised production. 3. What kind of colonialism are you talking about? The Americas where maybe financially negative, but Asia was most defintively not.
                    $endgroup$
                    – TheDyingOfLight
                    11 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    1. The industrial revolution got started without widespread use of coal. It was used extensively out of convenience, being relatively cheap and energy-dense, but there is no requirement for it. Coal certainly helped expand development more rapidly than without it, but this is not the same as being required for industrial innovation (one could even argue that it retarded technological developments in efficiency as it made inefficient processes less prohibitively expensive). I see no way that lacking coal would have prevented technological innovation.
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    8 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    2. Slavery is irrelevant because it has no significant influence on the industrial revolution. Personally I find that excessively reductive to the point of being misleading. Development has a multitude of causes, of which slavery is not determinative (not least of which because of how you define "slave" vs serf vs itinerant worker). Climate, disease, cultural traits, good governance, extractive colonial governments, etc.
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    8 hours ago






                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    I would add, a big factor why slave based economy countries are not developed is mostly due to the way the government operated. In a semi-free country, such as western Europe, the government were somewhat held accountable, thus managed the country better, allowing for better economy to flourish. In most slave countries, the government had little regard for the people and thus treated them hard and would take from them what they wanted when they wanted. This would stifle development. Just look at Brazils turbulent and corrupt history for that.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Sonvar
                    3 hours ago
















                  1












                  $begingroup$

                  Here are a number of ideas, some are more speculative and handwaving than others.




                  • No Coal Deposits


                  Have some kind of bacteria that rapidly decomposes dead wood develope when trees come around. They would need to be quite resilient and have some extremophile cousins to decompose wood in anaerobic environments.




                  • No Colonialism


                  This is really speculative but could work story wise. Have a ghost plage-ship reach the America 200 years before Columbus or have the Norse colonies on Vinland and Markland succeed. Both events would allow the Americans to develop immunities to European diseases, which killed 95% of the population before the Europeans came to colonize. The technological advantage would not have been sufficient to conquer native superpowers during that time. No American colonial nations would hamper European economies, because there would be fewer export markets. Without the colonial successes in the Americas the tedious adventures in Africa, South-East-Asia and India wouldn´t have a base. Especially the case of India is interesting, as the looting of India by the British and it's use as a resource mine and market might have been crucial for the industrial revolution to happen.




                  • Slavery


                  Brasil isn´t a world power. That´s really odd as it is a huge, resource and manpower-rich country. The reason for that is that they didn´t industrialized, as their economy was slave-based. European economies weren´t slave-based because the Pope prohibited the enslavement of the recently baptized in 1435. Never let this happen and you got slave economies in Europe.



                  All that said I don´t feel that option two and three will be permanent. Option one with no coal means no industry or the rapid collapse of it when the forests are all cut down. An example of this would be the Mioan copper industry on Crete. This would hit all the countries equally.
                  Options two and three would only hamper Europe. In that case, my money would be on one of the Mughal Empires Indian successor states or Japan starting the spiral of technological development. India had been one of the most industrialized regions of the world for millennia until the British came plundering. Japan had already developed high-sea ships, but they were shocked into isolationism upon contact with the more advanced Europeans. Keep the Europeans primitive and a Japanese colonial Empire could be the first step in and eastern technology arms race with Korea and Qing. But both the latter options would give you a few centuries longer of pre-industrial Europe to play around with.






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$









                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    None of these actually affect the industrial revolution. Coal comes close, but that is largely a misconception due to coal being heavily used in how the industrial revolution developed. Slavery is absolutely irrelevant (maybe even retards development), and colonialism likely cost more than it provided. There is simply no mechanism for those to be necessary for an industrial revolution.
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    11 hours ago






                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    @pluckedkiwi 1. How is coal a misconception? Without it as a dense energy surce there will be no steam engines. Wood won´t work due to deforestation. 2. Slavery is absolutely relevant, as the industrial revolution was about making work more efficient. Slaves are cheap workers who can be bread en masse if needed. Additionally slaves don´t buy as many products as free workers, so the markets would not demand industrialised production. 3. What kind of colonialism are you talking about? The Americas where maybe financially negative, but Asia was most defintively not.
                    $endgroup$
                    – TheDyingOfLight
                    11 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    1. The industrial revolution got started without widespread use of coal. It was used extensively out of convenience, being relatively cheap and energy-dense, but there is no requirement for it. Coal certainly helped expand development more rapidly than without it, but this is not the same as being required for industrial innovation (one could even argue that it retarded technological developments in efficiency as it made inefficient processes less prohibitively expensive). I see no way that lacking coal would have prevented technological innovation.
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    8 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    2. Slavery is irrelevant because it has no significant influence on the industrial revolution. Personally I find that excessively reductive to the point of being misleading. Development has a multitude of causes, of which slavery is not determinative (not least of which because of how you define "slave" vs serf vs itinerant worker). Climate, disease, cultural traits, good governance, extractive colonial governments, etc.
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    8 hours ago






                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    I would add, a big factor why slave based economy countries are not developed is mostly due to the way the government operated. In a semi-free country, such as western Europe, the government were somewhat held accountable, thus managed the country better, allowing for better economy to flourish. In most slave countries, the government had little regard for the people and thus treated them hard and would take from them what they wanted when they wanted. This would stifle development. Just look at Brazils turbulent and corrupt history for that.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Sonvar
                    3 hours ago














                  1












                  1








                  1





                  $begingroup$

                  Here are a number of ideas, some are more speculative and handwaving than others.




                  • No Coal Deposits


                  Have some kind of bacteria that rapidly decomposes dead wood develope when trees come around. They would need to be quite resilient and have some extremophile cousins to decompose wood in anaerobic environments.




                  • No Colonialism


                  This is really speculative but could work story wise. Have a ghost plage-ship reach the America 200 years before Columbus or have the Norse colonies on Vinland and Markland succeed. Both events would allow the Americans to develop immunities to European diseases, which killed 95% of the population before the Europeans came to colonize. The technological advantage would not have been sufficient to conquer native superpowers during that time. No American colonial nations would hamper European economies, because there would be fewer export markets. Without the colonial successes in the Americas the tedious adventures in Africa, South-East-Asia and India wouldn´t have a base. Especially the case of India is interesting, as the looting of India by the British and it's use as a resource mine and market might have been crucial for the industrial revolution to happen.




                  • Slavery


                  Brasil isn´t a world power. That´s really odd as it is a huge, resource and manpower-rich country. The reason for that is that they didn´t industrialized, as their economy was slave-based. European economies weren´t slave-based because the Pope prohibited the enslavement of the recently baptized in 1435. Never let this happen and you got slave economies in Europe.



                  All that said I don´t feel that option two and three will be permanent. Option one with no coal means no industry or the rapid collapse of it when the forests are all cut down. An example of this would be the Mioan copper industry on Crete. This would hit all the countries equally.
                  Options two and three would only hamper Europe. In that case, my money would be on one of the Mughal Empires Indian successor states or Japan starting the spiral of technological development. India had been one of the most industrialized regions of the world for millennia until the British came plundering. Japan had already developed high-sea ships, but they were shocked into isolationism upon contact with the more advanced Europeans. Keep the Europeans primitive and a Japanese colonial Empire could be the first step in and eastern technology arms race with Korea and Qing. But both the latter options would give you a few centuries longer of pre-industrial Europe to play around with.






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  Here are a number of ideas, some are more speculative and handwaving than others.




                  • No Coal Deposits


                  Have some kind of bacteria that rapidly decomposes dead wood develope when trees come around. They would need to be quite resilient and have some extremophile cousins to decompose wood in anaerobic environments.




                  • No Colonialism


                  This is really speculative but could work story wise. Have a ghost plage-ship reach the America 200 years before Columbus or have the Norse colonies on Vinland and Markland succeed. Both events would allow the Americans to develop immunities to European diseases, which killed 95% of the population before the Europeans came to colonize. The technological advantage would not have been sufficient to conquer native superpowers during that time. No American colonial nations would hamper European economies, because there would be fewer export markets. Without the colonial successes in the Americas the tedious adventures in Africa, South-East-Asia and India wouldn´t have a base. Especially the case of India is interesting, as the looting of India by the British and it's use as a resource mine and market might have been crucial for the industrial revolution to happen.




                  • Slavery


                  Brasil isn´t a world power. That´s really odd as it is a huge, resource and manpower-rich country. The reason for that is that they didn´t industrialized, as their economy was slave-based. European economies weren´t slave-based because the Pope prohibited the enslavement of the recently baptized in 1435. Never let this happen and you got slave economies in Europe.



                  All that said I don´t feel that option two and three will be permanent. Option one with no coal means no industry or the rapid collapse of it when the forests are all cut down. An example of this would be the Mioan copper industry on Crete. This would hit all the countries equally.
                  Options two and three would only hamper Europe. In that case, my money would be on one of the Mughal Empires Indian successor states or Japan starting the spiral of technological development. India had been one of the most industrialized regions of the world for millennia until the British came plundering. Japan had already developed high-sea ships, but they were shocked into isolationism upon contact with the more advanced Europeans. Keep the Europeans primitive and a Japanese colonial Empire could be the first step in and eastern technology arms race with Korea and Qing. But both the latter options would give you a few centuries longer of pre-industrial Europe to play around with.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 7 hours ago

























                  answered 12 hours ago









                  TheDyingOfLightTheDyingOfLight

                  65410




                  65410








                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    None of these actually affect the industrial revolution. Coal comes close, but that is largely a misconception due to coal being heavily used in how the industrial revolution developed. Slavery is absolutely irrelevant (maybe even retards development), and colonialism likely cost more than it provided. There is simply no mechanism for those to be necessary for an industrial revolution.
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    11 hours ago






                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    @pluckedkiwi 1. How is coal a misconception? Without it as a dense energy surce there will be no steam engines. Wood won´t work due to deforestation. 2. Slavery is absolutely relevant, as the industrial revolution was about making work more efficient. Slaves are cheap workers who can be bread en masse if needed. Additionally slaves don´t buy as many products as free workers, so the markets would not demand industrialised production. 3. What kind of colonialism are you talking about? The Americas where maybe financially negative, but Asia was most defintively not.
                    $endgroup$
                    – TheDyingOfLight
                    11 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    1. The industrial revolution got started without widespread use of coal. It was used extensively out of convenience, being relatively cheap and energy-dense, but there is no requirement for it. Coal certainly helped expand development more rapidly than without it, but this is not the same as being required for industrial innovation (one could even argue that it retarded technological developments in efficiency as it made inefficient processes less prohibitively expensive). I see no way that lacking coal would have prevented technological innovation.
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    8 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    2. Slavery is irrelevant because it has no significant influence on the industrial revolution. Personally I find that excessively reductive to the point of being misleading. Development has a multitude of causes, of which slavery is not determinative (not least of which because of how you define "slave" vs serf vs itinerant worker). Climate, disease, cultural traits, good governance, extractive colonial governments, etc.
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    8 hours ago






                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    I would add, a big factor why slave based economy countries are not developed is mostly due to the way the government operated. In a semi-free country, such as western Europe, the government were somewhat held accountable, thus managed the country better, allowing for better economy to flourish. In most slave countries, the government had little regard for the people and thus treated them hard and would take from them what they wanted when they wanted. This would stifle development. Just look at Brazils turbulent and corrupt history for that.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Sonvar
                    3 hours ago














                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    None of these actually affect the industrial revolution. Coal comes close, but that is largely a misconception due to coal being heavily used in how the industrial revolution developed. Slavery is absolutely irrelevant (maybe even retards development), and colonialism likely cost more than it provided. There is simply no mechanism for those to be necessary for an industrial revolution.
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    11 hours ago






                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    @pluckedkiwi 1. How is coal a misconception? Without it as a dense energy surce there will be no steam engines. Wood won´t work due to deforestation. 2. Slavery is absolutely relevant, as the industrial revolution was about making work more efficient. Slaves are cheap workers who can be bread en masse if needed. Additionally slaves don´t buy as many products as free workers, so the markets would not demand industrialised production. 3. What kind of colonialism are you talking about? The Americas where maybe financially negative, but Asia was most defintively not.
                    $endgroup$
                    – TheDyingOfLight
                    11 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    1. The industrial revolution got started without widespread use of coal. It was used extensively out of convenience, being relatively cheap and energy-dense, but there is no requirement for it. Coal certainly helped expand development more rapidly than without it, but this is not the same as being required for industrial innovation (one could even argue that it retarded technological developments in efficiency as it made inefficient processes less prohibitively expensive). I see no way that lacking coal would have prevented technological innovation.
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    8 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    2. Slavery is irrelevant because it has no significant influence on the industrial revolution. Personally I find that excessively reductive to the point of being misleading. Development has a multitude of causes, of which slavery is not determinative (not least of which because of how you define "slave" vs serf vs itinerant worker). Climate, disease, cultural traits, good governance, extractive colonial governments, etc.
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    8 hours ago






                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    I would add, a big factor why slave based economy countries are not developed is mostly due to the way the government operated. In a semi-free country, such as western Europe, the government were somewhat held accountable, thus managed the country better, allowing for better economy to flourish. In most slave countries, the government had little regard for the people and thus treated them hard and would take from them what they wanted when they wanted. This would stifle development. Just look at Brazils turbulent and corrupt history for that.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Sonvar
                    3 hours ago








                  1




                  1




                  $begingroup$
                  None of these actually affect the industrial revolution. Coal comes close, but that is largely a misconception due to coal being heavily used in how the industrial revolution developed. Slavery is absolutely irrelevant (maybe even retards development), and colonialism likely cost more than it provided. There is simply no mechanism for those to be necessary for an industrial revolution.
                  $endgroup$
                  – pluckedkiwi
                  11 hours ago




                  $begingroup$
                  None of these actually affect the industrial revolution. Coal comes close, but that is largely a misconception due to coal being heavily used in how the industrial revolution developed. Slavery is absolutely irrelevant (maybe even retards development), and colonialism likely cost more than it provided. There is simply no mechanism for those to be necessary for an industrial revolution.
                  $endgroup$
                  – pluckedkiwi
                  11 hours ago




                  1




                  1




                  $begingroup$
                  @pluckedkiwi 1. How is coal a misconception? Without it as a dense energy surce there will be no steam engines. Wood won´t work due to deforestation. 2. Slavery is absolutely relevant, as the industrial revolution was about making work more efficient. Slaves are cheap workers who can be bread en masse if needed. Additionally slaves don´t buy as many products as free workers, so the markets would not demand industrialised production. 3. What kind of colonialism are you talking about? The Americas where maybe financially negative, but Asia was most defintively not.
                  $endgroup$
                  – TheDyingOfLight
                  11 hours ago




                  $begingroup$
                  @pluckedkiwi 1. How is coal a misconception? Without it as a dense energy surce there will be no steam engines. Wood won´t work due to deforestation. 2. Slavery is absolutely relevant, as the industrial revolution was about making work more efficient. Slaves are cheap workers who can be bread en masse if needed. Additionally slaves don´t buy as many products as free workers, so the markets would not demand industrialised production. 3. What kind of colonialism are you talking about? The Americas where maybe financially negative, but Asia was most defintively not.
                  $endgroup$
                  – TheDyingOfLight
                  11 hours ago












                  $begingroup$
                  1. The industrial revolution got started without widespread use of coal. It was used extensively out of convenience, being relatively cheap and energy-dense, but there is no requirement for it. Coal certainly helped expand development more rapidly than without it, but this is not the same as being required for industrial innovation (one could even argue that it retarded technological developments in efficiency as it made inefficient processes less prohibitively expensive). I see no way that lacking coal would have prevented technological innovation.
                  $endgroup$
                  – pluckedkiwi
                  8 hours ago




                  $begingroup$
                  1. The industrial revolution got started without widespread use of coal. It was used extensively out of convenience, being relatively cheap and energy-dense, but there is no requirement for it. Coal certainly helped expand development more rapidly than without it, but this is not the same as being required for industrial innovation (one could even argue that it retarded technological developments in efficiency as it made inefficient processes less prohibitively expensive). I see no way that lacking coal would have prevented technological innovation.
                  $endgroup$
                  – pluckedkiwi
                  8 hours ago












                  $begingroup$
                  2. Slavery is irrelevant because it has no significant influence on the industrial revolution. Personally I find that excessively reductive to the point of being misleading. Development has a multitude of causes, of which slavery is not determinative (not least of which because of how you define "slave" vs serf vs itinerant worker). Climate, disease, cultural traits, good governance, extractive colonial governments, etc.
                  $endgroup$
                  – pluckedkiwi
                  8 hours ago




                  $begingroup$
                  2. Slavery is irrelevant because it has no significant influence on the industrial revolution. Personally I find that excessively reductive to the point of being misleading. Development has a multitude of causes, of which slavery is not determinative (not least of which because of how you define "slave" vs serf vs itinerant worker). Climate, disease, cultural traits, good governance, extractive colonial governments, etc.
                  $endgroup$
                  – pluckedkiwi
                  8 hours ago




                  1




                  1




                  $begingroup$
                  I would add, a big factor why slave based economy countries are not developed is mostly due to the way the government operated. In a semi-free country, such as western Europe, the government were somewhat held accountable, thus managed the country better, allowing for better economy to flourish. In most slave countries, the government had little regard for the people and thus treated them hard and would take from them what they wanted when they wanted. This would stifle development. Just look at Brazils turbulent and corrupt history for that.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Sonvar
                  3 hours ago




                  $begingroup$
                  I would add, a big factor why slave based economy countries are not developed is mostly due to the way the government operated. In a semi-free country, such as western Europe, the government were somewhat held accountable, thus managed the country better, allowing for better economy to flourish. In most slave countries, the government had little regard for the people and thus treated them hard and would take from them what they wanted when they wanted. This would stifle development. Just look at Brazils turbulent and corrupt history for that.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Sonvar
                  3 hours ago











                  0












                  $begingroup$

                  A possible catastrophe to stead the progression of technology would need to force people away from cities/ prevent people from gathering in large groups to create a disposable work force (factories would not be able to staff up to full production). A new flu strain might make people weary of large gatherings and tight proximity, a law might be in-place to prevent talk of uprisings and challenges to the powers that be, maybe a disease that only effects woman has killed off most of the females of our population and those left are forced into exclusivity to protect their female resources. The how is pretty broad, but one of those scenarios would be an interesting place to build a world out of.



                  In terms of impact, the amount of humans the earth can support would be dramatically reduced. Up to current time, population spikes have been met with new technology in the agriculture space to support the new boom. The industrialization of farming is what allowed large populations to be sustained during the industrial revolution, and also allowed for large amounts of the populations that did not have to farm. People all over the world would be starving, likely forcing more people into indentured servitude or slavery as those ways of life would likely be the only way to get fed. It would start its own apocalyptic world, where a large portion of the world is doomed to die of starvation. People likely would turn to cannibalism and the fabric of society would quickly unravel.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$













                  • $begingroup$
                    A viral strain that targeted wheat before the advent of biology or genetics. Much of the western world would have been decimated before anyone would have known what was going on.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Sonvar
                    3 hours ago
















                  0












                  $begingroup$

                  A possible catastrophe to stead the progression of technology would need to force people away from cities/ prevent people from gathering in large groups to create a disposable work force (factories would not be able to staff up to full production). A new flu strain might make people weary of large gatherings and tight proximity, a law might be in-place to prevent talk of uprisings and challenges to the powers that be, maybe a disease that only effects woman has killed off most of the females of our population and those left are forced into exclusivity to protect their female resources. The how is pretty broad, but one of those scenarios would be an interesting place to build a world out of.



                  In terms of impact, the amount of humans the earth can support would be dramatically reduced. Up to current time, population spikes have been met with new technology in the agriculture space to support the new boom. The industrialization of farming is what allowed large populations to be sustained during the industrial revolution, and also allowed for large amounts of the populations that did not have to farm. People all over the world would be starving, likely forcing more people into indentured servitude or slavery as those ways of life would likely be the only way to get fed. It would start its own apocalyptic world, where a large portion of the world is doomed to die of starvation. People likely would turn to cannibalism and the fabric of society would quickly unravel.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$













                  • $begingroup$
                    A viral strain that targeted wheat before the advent of biology or genetics. Much of the western world would have been decimated before anyone would have known what was going on.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Sonvar
                    3 hours ago














                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$

                  A possible catastrophe to stead the progression of technology would need to force people away from cities/ prevent people from gathering in large groups to create a disposable work force (factories would not be able to staff up to full production). A new flu strain might make people weary of large gatherings and tight proximity, a law might be in-place to prevent talk of uprisings and challenges to the powers that be, maybe a disease that only effects woman has killed off most of the females of our population and those left are forced into exclusivity to protect their female resources. The how is pretty broad, but one of those scenarios would be an interesting place to build a world out of.



                  In terms of impact, the amount of humans the earth can support would be dramatically reduced. Up to current time, population spikes have been met with new technology in the agriculture space to support the new boom. The industrialization of farming is what allowed large populations to be sustained during the industrial revolution, and also allowed for large amounts of the populations that did not have to farm. People all over the world would be starving, likely forcing more people into indentured servitude or slavery as those ways of life would likely be the only way to get fed. It would start its own apocalyptic world, where a large portion of the world is doomed to die of starvation. People likely would turn to cannibalism and the fabric of society would quickly unravel.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  A possible catastrophe to stead the progression of technology would need to force people away from cities/ prevent people from gathering in large groups to create a disposable work force (factories would not be able to staff up to full production). A new flu strain might make people weary of large gatherings and tight proximity, a law might be in-place to prevent talk of uprisings and challenges to the powers that be, maybe a disease that only effects woman has killed off most of the females of our population and those left are forced into exclusivity to protect their female resources. The how is pretty broad, but one of those scenarios would be an interesting place to build a world out of.



                  In terms of impact, the amount of humans the earth can support would be dramatically reduced. Up to current time, population spikes have been met with new technology in the agriculture space to support the new boom. The industrialization of farming is what allowed large populations to be sustained during the industrial revolution, and also allowed for large amounts of the populations that did not have to farm. People all over the world would be starving, likely forcing more people into indentured servitude or slavery as those ways of life would likely be the only way to get fed. It would start its own apocalyptic world, where a large portion of the world is doomed to die of starvation. People likely would turn to cannibalism and the fabric of society would quickly unravel.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 12 hours ago









                  AlexAlex

                  414




                  414












                  • $begingroup$
                    A viral strain that targeted wheat before the advent of biology or genetics. Much of the western world would have been decimated before anyone would have known what was going on.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Sonvar
                    3 hours ago


















                  • $begingroup$
                    A viral strain that targeted wheat before the advent of biology or genetics. Much of the western world would have been decimated before anyone would have known what was going on.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Sonvar
                    3 hours ago
















                  $begingroup$
                  A viral strain that targeted wheat before the advent of biology or genetics. Much of the western world would have been decimated before anyone would have known what was going on.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Sonvar
                  3 hours ago




                  $begingroup$
                  A viral strain that targeted wheat before the advent of biology or genetics. Much of the western world would have been decimated before anyone would have known what was going on.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Sonvar
                  3 hours ago











                  0












                  $begingroup$

                  Religious oppression.



                  Religion won't allow certain advancements.



                  The impact is fairly obvious, disease and starvation remain rampant, people never live very long, knowledge is rarely passed between generations.



                  Here's a simplified view.



                  Generation 1: Man needs wood for his fire, he can only collect fallen trees. He spends his entire life collecting wood and hunting. His son grows up.



                  Generation 2: Seeing his father busy from wood hunting, her tries to use tools he already has to cut down a tree. Smashing it with a rock doesn't work, but eventually the rock splits and becomes sharp. This new sharp rock works much better. His son sees this.



                  Generation 3: The Axe is born, the man goes out and cuts down a tree, brings it home, and raises a family, the son is a baby.



                  ---Religious fanatics attack claiming this new axe invention violates gods rules of the world. The man is killed and his axe destroyed.



                  Generation 4: The baby grows to be a man, and has to go collect wood for the fire by hand, not knowing about the lost invention of the axe or how to make one.



                  The cycle repeats forever.






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$









                  • 2




                    $begingroup$
                    "The dark ages halted the development of civilization for a long time. It was a time where math and science was evil" This is actually a bit of a myth. However, if the mediaeval period had been like this then indeed we would have been proper stuck (probably regressed, even), so your suggestion is still sound.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Lightness Races in Orbit
                    11 hours ago








                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    Such tight control would never allow 18th century achievements, which was already quite modern in many ways. Also, "the dark ages" were not really a thing (unless you are talking about post-bronze age collapse Greece in the 12th century BC) - that idea is a holdover from before we had properly developed history as an academic field.
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    11 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    @pluckedkiwi Would the Amish be a better example of religion suppressing technology?
                    $endgroup$
                    – Trevor D
                    11 hours ago






                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    The problem is that this regime will most probably be destroyed at some point by a rival one that didn't outlaw technology. The Amish only exist because they live in a bigger technophile regime that both tolerates it and protects it from others, which by definition cannot be scaled up to the entire world, especially a pre-industrial one.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Eth
                    11 hours ago






                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    More generally, the religious fanatics excuse is often lazily used to justify some bad quirk in worldbuilding, generally in a nonsensical way based on long-debunked clichés like the medieval dark ages, or the medieval/renaissance Catholic Church/Muslim empires supposed flat-earther anti-science stance.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Eth
                    11 hours ago
















                  0












                  $begingroup$

                  Religious oppression.



                  Religion won't allow certain advancements.



                  The impact is fairly obvious, disease and starvation remain rampant, people never live very long, knowledge is rarely passed between generations.



                  Here's a simplified view.



                  Generation 1: Man needs wood for his fire, he can only collect fallen trees. He spends his entire life collecting wood and hunting. His son grows up.



                  Generation 2: Seeing his father busy from wood hunting, her tries to use tools he already has to cut down a tree. Smashing it with a rock doesn't work, but eventually the rock splits and becomes sharp. This new sharp rock works much better. His son sees this.



                  Generation 3: The Axe is born, the man goes out and cuts down a tree, brings it home, and raises a family, the son is a baby.



                  ---Religious fanatics attack claiming this new axe invention violates gods rules of the world. The man is killed and his axe destroyed.



                  Generation 4: The baby grows to be a man, and has to go collect wood for the fire by hand, not knowing about the lost invention of the axe or how to make one.



                  The cycle repeats forever.






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$









                  • 2




                    $begingroup$
                    "The dark ages halted the development of civilization for a long time. It was a time where math and science was evil" This is actually a bit of a myth. However, if the mediaeval period had been like this then indeed we would have been proper stuck (probably regressed, even), so your suggestion is still sound.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Lightness Races in Orbit
                    11 hours ago








                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    Such tight control would never allow 18th century achievements, which was already quite modern in many ways. Also, "the dark ages" were not really a thing (unless you are talking about post-bronze age collapse Greece in the 12th century BC) - that idea is a holdover from before we had properly developed history as an academic field.
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    11 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    @pluckedkiwi Would the Amish be a better example of religion suppressing technology?
                    $endgroup$
                    – Trevor D
                    11 hours ago






                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    The problem is that this regime will most probably be destroyed at some point by a rival one that didn't outlaw technology. The Amish only exist because they live in a bigger technophile regime that both tolerates it and protects it from others, which by definition cannot be scaled up to the entire world, especially a pre-industrial one.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Eth
                    11 hours ago






                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    More generally, the religious fanatics excuse is often lazily used to justify some bad quirk in worldbuilding, generally in a nonsensical way based on long-debunked clichés like the medieval dark ages, or the medieval/renaissance Catholic Church/Muslim empires supposed flat-earther anti-science stance.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Eth
                    11 hours ago














                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$

                  Religious oppression.



                  Religion won't allow certain advancements.



                  The impact is fairly obvious, disease and starvation remain rampant, people never live very long, knowledge is rarely passed between generations.



                  Here's a simplified view.



                  Generation 1: Man needs wood for his fire, he can only collect fallen trees. He spends his entire life collecting wood and hunting. His son grows up.



                  Generation 2: Seeing his father busy from wood hunting, her tries to use tools he already has to cut down a tree. Smashing it with a rock doesn't work, but eventually the rock splits and becomes sharp. This new sharp rock works much better. His son sees this.



                  Generation 3: The Axe is born, the man goes out and cuts down a tree, brings it home, and raises a family, the son is a baby.



                  ---Religious fanatics attack claiming this new axe invention violates gods rules of the world. The man is killed and his axe destroyed.



                  Generation 4: The baby grows to be a man, and has to go collect wood for the fire by hand, not knowing about the lost invention of the axe or how to make one.



                  The cycle repeats forever.






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  Religious oppression.



                  Religion won't allow certain advancements.



                  The impact is fairly obvious, disease and starvation remain rampant, people never live very long, knowledge is rarely passed between generations.



                  Here's a simplified view.



                  Generation 1: Man needs wood for his fire, he can only collect fallen trees. He spends his entire life collecting wood and hunting. His son grows up.



                  Generation 2: Seeing his father busy from wood hunting, her tries to use tools he already has to cut down a tree. Smashing it with a rock doesn't work, but eventually the rock splits and becomes sharp. This new sharp rock works much better. His son sees this.



                  Generation 3: The Axe is born, the man goes out and cuts down a tree, brings it home, and raises a family, the son is a baby.



                  ---Religious fanatics attack claiming this new axe invention violates gods rules of the world. The man is killed and his axe destroyed.



                  Generation 4: The baby grows to be a man, and has to go collect wood for the fire by hand, not knowing about the lost invention of the axe or how to make one.



                  The cycle repeats forever.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 11 hours ago

























                  answered 11 hours ago









                  Trevor DTrevor D

                  2,899320




                  2,899320








                  • 2




                    $begingroup$
                    "The dark ages halted the development of civilization for a long time. It was a time where math and science was evil" This is actually a bit of a myth. However, if the mediaeval period had been like this then indeed we would have been proper stuck (probably regressed, even), so your suggestion is still sound.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Lightness Races in Orbit
                    11 hours ago








                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    Such tight control would never allow 18th century achievements, which was already quite modern in many ways. Also, "the dark ages" were not really a thing (unless you are talking about post-bronze age collapse Greece in the 12th century BC) - that idea is a holdover from before we had properly developed history as an academic field.
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    11 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    @pluckedkiwi Would the Amish be a better example of religion suppressing technology?
                    $endgroup$
                    – Trevor D
                    11 hours ago






                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    The problem is that this regime will most probably be destroyed at some point by a rival one that didn't outlaw technology. The Amish only exist because they live in a bigger technophile regime that both tolerates it and protects it from others, which by definition cannot be scaled up to the entire world, especially a pre-industrial one.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Eth
                    11 hours ago






                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    More generally, the religious fanatics excuse is often lazily used to justify some bad quirk in worldbuilding, generally in a nonsensical way based on long-debunked clichés like the medieval dark ages, or the medieval/renaissance Catholic Church/Muslim empires supposed flat-earther anti-science stance.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Eth
                    11 hours ago














                  • 2




                    $begingroup$
                    "The dark ages halted the development of civilization for a long time. It was a time where math and science was evil" This is actually a bit of a myth. However, if the mediaeval period had been like this then indeed we would have been proper stuck (probably regressed, even), so your suggestion is still sound.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Lightness Races in Orbit
                    11 hours ago








                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    Such tight control would never allow 18th century achievements, which was already quite modern in many ways. Also, "the dark ages" were not really a thing (unless you are talking about post-bronze age collapse Greece in the 12th century BC) - that idea is a holdover from before we had properly developed history as an academic field.
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    11 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    @pluckedkiwi Would the Amish be a better example of religion suppressing technology?
                    $endgroup$
                    – Trevor D
                    11 hours ago






                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    The problem is that this regime will most probably be destroyed at some point by a rival one that didn't outlaw technology. The Amish only exist because they live in a bigger technophile regime that both tolerates it and protects it from others, which by definition cannot be scaled up to the entire world, especially a pre-industrial one.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Eth
                    11 hours ago






                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    More generally, the religious fanatics excuse is often lazily used to justify some bad quirk in worldbuilding, generally in a nonsensical way based on long-debunked clichés like the medieval dark ages, or the medieval/renaissance Catholic Church/Muslim empires supposed flat-earther anti-science stance.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Eth
                    11 hours ago








                  2




                  2




                  $begingroup$
                  "The dark ages halted the development of civilization for a long time. It was a time where math and science was evil" This is actually a bit of a myth. However, if the mediaeval period had been like this then indeed we would have been proper stuck (probably regressed, even), so your suggestion is still sound.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Lightness Races in Orbit
                  11 hours ago






                  $begingroup$
                  "The dark ages halted the development of civilization for a long time. It was a time where math and science was evil" This is actually a bit of a myth. However, if the mediaeval period had been like this then indeed we would have been proper stuck (probably regressed, even), so your suggestion is still sound.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Lightness Races in Orbit
                  11 hours ago






                  1




                  1




                  $begingroup$
                  Such tight control would never allow 18th century achievements, which was already quite modern in many ways. Also, "the dark ages" were not really a thing (unless you are talking about post-bronze age collapse Greece in the 12th century BC) - that idea is a holdover from before we had properly developed history as an academic field.
                  $endgroup$
                  – pluckedkiwi
                  11 hours ago




                  $begingroup$
                  Such tight control would never allow 18th century achievements, which was already quite modern in many ways. Also, "the dark ages" were not really a thing (unless you are talking about post-bronze age collapse Greece in the 12th century BC) - that idea is a holdover from before we had properly developed history as an academic field.
                  $endgroup$
                  – pluckedkiwi
                  11 hours ago












                  $begingroup$
                  @pluckedkiwi Would the Amish be a better example of religion suppressing technology?
                  $endgroup$
                  – Trevor D
                  11 hours ago




                  $begingroup$
                  @pluckedkiwi Would the Amish be a better example of religion suppressing technology?
                  $endgroup$
                  – Trevor D
                  11 hours ago




                  1




                  1




                  $begingroup$
                  The problem is that this regime will most probably be destroyed at some point by a rival one that didn't outlaw technology. The Amish only exist because they live in a bigger technophile regime that both tolerates it and protects it from others, which by definition cannot be scaled up to the entire world, especially a pre-industrial one.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Eth
                  11 hours ago




                  $begingroup$
                  The problem is that this regime will most probably be destroyed at some point by a rival one that didn't outlaw technology. The Amish only exist because they live in a bigger technophile regime that both tolerates it and protects it from others, which by definition cannot be scaled up to the entire world, especially a pre-industrial one.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Eth
                  11 hours ago




                  1




                  1




                  $begingroup$
                  More generally, the religious fanatics excuse is often lazily used to justify some bad quirk in worldbuilding, generally in a nonsensical way based on long-debunked clichés like the medieval dark ages, or the medieval/renaissance Catholic Church/Muslim empires supposed flat-earther anti-science stance.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Eth
                  11 hours ago




                  $begingroup$
                  More generally, the religious fanatics excuse is often lazily used to justify some bad quirk in worldbuilding, generally in a nonsensical way based on long-debunked clichés like the medieval dark ages, or the medieval/renaissance Catholic Church/Muslim empires supposed flat-earther anti-science stance.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Eth
                  11 hours ago











                  0












                  $begingroup$

                  The industrial revolution happened because of advances in technology.



                  Technology improved because of advances in science.



                  Science (and art) improved because more resources and people time became available.



                  This Renaissance happened because a substantial portion of the population suddenly disappeared (Black Plague), leaving a population with far more resources and infrastructure per person that they had ever had before.



                  So, if you want to prevent the industrial revolution, you have to first eliminate the Renaissance. And you can do that by eliminating the Black Plague, and allowing Europe to continue existing in the dark ages.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$









                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    It's not like technological advances were inexistent during the medieval period in Europe. Architecture, engineering, fabrication, materials science; They all progressed. Even without a plague it is certain that technology would have kept progressing.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Gabriel C.
                    9 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    This may exacerbate the need to colonize other lands. The population of Europe would have been way too much for the local resources to have supported, triggering mass migration else where.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Sonvar
                    3 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    @Sonvar, that's what the Crusades were for.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Ray Butterworth
                    3 hours ago
















                  0












                  $begingroup$

                  The industrial revolution happened because of advances in technology.



                  Technology improved because of advances in science.



                  Science (and art) improved because more resources and people time became available.



                  This Renaissance happened because a substantial portion of the population suddenly disappeared (Black Plague), leaving a population with far more resources and infrastructure per person that they had ever had before.



                  So, if you want to prevent the industrial revolution, you have to first eliminate the Renaissance. And you can do that by eliminating the Black Plague, and allowing Europe to continue existing in the dark ages.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$









                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    It's not like technological advances were inexistent during the medieval period in Europe. Architecture, engineering, fabrication, materials science; They all progressed. Even without a plague it is certain that technology would have kept progressing.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Gabriel C.
                    9 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    This may exacerbate the need to colonize other lands. The population of Europe would have been way too much for the local resources to have supported, triggering mass migration else where.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Sonvar
                    3 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    @Sonvar, that's what the Crusades were for.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Ray Butterworth
                    3 hours ago














                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$

                  The industrial revolution happened because of advances in technology.



                  Technology improved because of advances in science.



                  Science (and art) improved because more resources and people time became available.



                  This Renaissance happened because a substantial portion of the population suddenly disappeared (Black Plague), leaving a population with far more resources and infrastructure per person that they had ever had before.



                  So, if you want to prevent the industrial revolution, you have to first eliminate the Renaissance. And you can do that by eliminating the Black Plague, and allowing Europe to continue existing in the dark ages.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  The industrial revolution happened because of advances in technology.



                  Technology improved because of advances in science.



                  Science (and art) improved because more resources and people time became available.



                  This Renaissance happened because a substantial portion of the population suddenly disappeared (Black Plague), leaving a population with far more resources and infrastructure per person that they had ever had before.



                  So, if you want to prevent the industrial revolution, you have to first eliminate the Renaissance. And you can do that by eliminating the Black Plague, and allowing Europe to continue existing in the dark ages.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 10 hours ago









                  Ray ButterworthRay Butterworth

                  1,129311




                  1,129311








                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    It's not like technological advances were inexistent during the medieval period in Europe. Architecture, engineering, fabrication, materials science; They all progressed. Even without a plague it is certain that technology would have kept progressing.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Gabriel C.
                    9 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    This may exacerbate the need to colonize other lands. The population of Europe would have been way too much for the local resources to have supported, triggering mass migration else where.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Sonvar
                    3 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    @Sonvar, that's what the Crusades were for.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Ray Butterworth
                    3 hours ago














                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    It's not like technological advances were inexistent during the medieval period in Europe. Architecture, engineering, fabrication, materials science; They all progressed. Even without a plague it is certain that technology would have kept progressing.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Gabriel C.
                    9 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    This may exacerbate the need to colonize other lands. The population of Europe would have been way too much for the local resources to have supported, triggering mass migration else where.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Sonvar
                    3 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    @Sonvar, that's what the Crusades were for.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Ray Butterworth
                    3 hours ago








                  1




                  1




                  $begingroup$
                  It's not like technological advances were inexistent during the medieval period in Europe. Architecture, engineering, fabrication, materials science; They all progressed. Even without a plague it is certain that technology would have kept progressing.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Gabriel C.
                  9 hours ago




                  $begingroup$
                  It's not like technological advances were inexistent during the medieval period in Europe. Architecture, engineering, fabrication, materials science; They all progressed. Even without a plague it is certain that technology would have kept progressing.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Gabriel C.
                  9 hours ago












                  $begingroup$
                  This may exacerbate the need to colonize other lands. The population of Europe would have been way too much for the local resources to have supported, triggering mass migration else where.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Sonvar
                  3 hours ago




                  $begingroup$
                  This may exacerbate the need to colonize other lands. The population of Europe would have been way too much for the local resources to have supported, triggering mass migration else where.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Sonvar
                  3 hours ago












                  $begingroup$
                  @Sonvar, that's what the Crusades were for.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Ray Butterworth
                  3 hours ago




                  $begingroup$
                  @Sonvar, that's what the Crusades were for.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Ray Butterworth
                  3 hours ago











                  0












                  $begingroup$

                  Limiting fossil fuels would only had delayed the Industrial Revolution from taking off. So that's not going to cut it.



                  You'll need a massive shortage of materials, like metal ores being depleted or unavailable (think the collapse of the Ringworld civilization in Larry Niven's novels.)



                  The world would have to have been very unusual, either most metals sunk to the core, or some process depleted them. Then you have humanity with nothing but stone, wood, bone and clay. Too extreme me thinks.



                  One thing that could delay progress is Plague. Think some form of plague that's cyclic, like the cicadas, with a high mortality rate, but with the cycles changing unpredictable over time, tied to some migratory vector species.



                  The Old World went to crap several times because of the Plague, and it were plagues introduced by Europeans that utterly destroyed all Pre-Columbian civilizations, from the agrarian all the way up to militarily strong, sophisticated empires.



                  So if you throw a wrench at humanity in the form of a recurring, unstoppable, high mortality rate, then whatever remains of humanity will be forced to hunker down in fragmented areas, which grow and then break over and over.



                  The cycles should be long enough for population to semi-bounce and spread and create new bunkers, and then to experience massive, widespread death when the plague comes.



                  I have a hard time seeing humanity escaping from being illiterate nomads with a few feudal lords here and there.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$









                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    The OP wanted 18th century, which even at the beginning thereof is substantially more advanced than illiterate nomads with feudal lords. The time was presumably chosen as being on the cusp of practical steam engines (Newcomen's steam engine was patented in 1712 but more primitive designs had been around longer)
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    6 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    I'd say my idea of cyclic plagues would do the trick. Hit humanity hard and unpredictably every 3-4 generations. A few rounds of that, and humanity would go from 18th industrial revolution to illiterate nomads.
                    $endgroup$
                    – luis.espinal
                    1 hour ago
















                  0












                  $begingroup$

                  Limiting fossil fuels would only had delayed the Industrial Revolution from taking off. So that's not going to cut it.



                  You'll need a massive shortage of materials, like metal ores being depleted or unavailable (think the collapse of the Ringworld civilization in Larry Niven's novels.)



                  The world would have to have been very unusual, either most metals sunk to the core, or some process depleted them. Then you have humanity with nothing but stone, wood, bone and clay. Too extreme me thinks.



                  One thing that could delay progress is Plague. Think some form of plague that's cyclic, like the cicadas, with a high mortality rate, but with the cycles changing unpredictable over time, tied to some migratory vector species.



                  The Old World went to crap several times because of the Plague, and it were plagues introduced by Europeans that utterly destroyed all Pre-Columbian civilizations, from the agrarian all the way up to militarily strong, sophisticated empires.



                  So if you throw a wrench at humanity in the form of a recurring, unstoppable, high mortality rate, then whatever remains of humanity will be forced to hunker down in fragmented areas, which grow and then break over and over.



                  The cycles should be long enough for population to semi-bounce and spread and create new bunkers, and then to experience massive, widespread death when the plague comes.



                  I have a hard time seeing humanity escaping from being illiterate nomads with a few feudal lords here and there.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$









                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    The OP wanted 18th century, which even at the beginning thereof is substantially more advanced than illiterate nomads with feudal lords. The time was presumably chosen as being on the cusp of practical steam engines (Newcomen's steam engine was patented in 1712 but more primitive designs had been around longer)
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    6 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    I'd say my idea of cyclic plagues would do the trick. Hit humanity hard and unpredictably every 3-4 generations. A few rounds of that, and humanity would go from 18th industrial revolution to illiterate nomads.
                    $endgroup$
                    – luis.espinal
                    1 hour ago














                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$

                  Limiting fossil fuels would only had delayed the Industrial Revolution from taking off. So that's not going to cut it.



                  You'll need a massive shortage of materials, like metal ores being depleted or unavailable (think the collapse of the Ringworld civilization in Larry Niven's novels.)



                  The world would have to have been very unusual, either most metals sunk to the core, or some process depleted them. Then you have humanity with nothing but stone, wood, bone and clay. Too extreme me thinks.



                  One thing that could delay progress is Plague. Think some form of plague that's cyclic, like the cicadas, with a high mortality rate, but with the cycles changing unpredictable over time, tied to some migratory vector species.



                  The Old World went to crap several times because of the Plague, and it were plagues introduced by Europeans that utterly destroyed all Pre-Columbian civilizations, from the agrarian all the way up to militarily strong, sophisticated empires.



                  So if you throw a wrench at humanity in the form of a recurring, unstoppable, high mortality rate, then whatever remains of humanity will be forced to hunker down in fragmented areas, which grow and then break over and over.



                  The cycles should be long enough for population to semi-bounce and spread and create new bunkers, and then to experience massive, widespread death when the plague comes.



                  I have a hard time seeing humanity escaping from being illiterate nomads with a few feudal lords here and there.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  Limiting fossil fuels would only had delayed the Industrial Revolution from taking off. So that's not going to cut it.



                  You'll need a massive shortage of materials, like metal ores being depleted or unavailable (think the collapse of the Ringworld civilization in Larry Niven's novels.)



                  The world would have to have been very unusual, either most metals sunk to the core, or some process depleted them. Then you have humanity with nothing but stone, wood, bone and clay. Too extreme me thinks.



                  One thing that could delay progress is Plague. Think some form of plague that's cyclic, like the cicadas, with a high mortality rate, but with the cycles changing unpredictable over time, tied to some migratory vector species.



                  The Old World went to crap several times because of the Plague, and it were plagues introduced by Europeans that utterly destroyed all Pre-Columbian civilizations, from the agrarian all the way up to militarily strong, sophisticated empires.



                  So if you throw a wrench at humanity in the form of a recurring, unstoppable, high mortality rate, then whatever remains of humanity will be forced to hunker down in fragmented areas, which grow and then break over and over.



                  The cycles should be long enough for population to semi-bounce and spread and create new bunkers, and then to experience massive, widespread death when the plague comes.



                  I have a hard time seeing humanity escaping from being illiterate nomads with a few feudal lords here and there.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 7 hours ago









                  luis.espinalluis.espinal

                  1714




                  1714








                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    The OP wanted 18th century, which even at the beginning thereof is substantially more advanced than illiterate nomads with feudal lords. The time was presumably chosen as being on the cusp of practical steam engines (Newcomen's steam engine was patented in 1712 but more primitive designs had been around longer)
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    6 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    I'd say my idea of cyclic plagues would do the trick. Hit humanity hard and unpredictably every 3-4 generations. A few rounds of that, and humanity would go from 18th industrial revolution to illiterate nomads.
                    $endgroup$
                    – luis.espinal
                    1 hour ago














                  • 1




                    $begingroup$
                    The OP wanted 18th century, which even at the beginning thereof is substantially more advanced than illiterate nomads with feudal lords. The time was presumably chosen as being on the cusp of practical steam engines (Newcomen's steam engine was patented in 1712 but more primitive designs had been around longer)
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    6 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    I'd say my idea of cyclic plagues would do the trick. Hit humanity hard and unpredictably every 3-4 generations. A few rounds of that, and humanity would go from 18th industrial revolution to illiterate nomads.
                    $endgroup$
                    – luis.espinal
                    1 hour ago








                  1




                  1




                  $begingroup$
                  The OP wanted 18th century, which even at the beginning thereof is substantially more advanced than illiterate nomads with feudal lords. The time was presumably chosen as being on the cusp of practical steam engines (Newcomen's steam engine was patented in 1712 but more primitive designs had been around longer)
                  $endgroup$
                  – pluckedkiwi
                  6 hours ago




                  $begingroup$
                  The OP wanted 18th century, which even at the beginning thereof is substantially more advanced than illiterate nomads with feudal lords. The time was presumably chosen as being on the cusp of practical steam engines (Newcomen's steam engine was patented in 1712 but more primitive designs had been around longer)
                  $endgroup$
                  – pluckedkiwi
                  6 hours ago












                  $begingroup$
                  I'd say my idea of cyclic plagues would do the trick. Hit humanity hard and unpredictably every 3-4 generations. A few rounds of that, and humanity would go from 18th industrial revolution to illiterate nomads.
                  $endgroup$
                  – luis.espinal
                  1 hour ago




                  $begingroup$
                  I'd say my idea of cyclic plagues would do the trick. Hit humanity hard and unpredictably every 3-4 generations. A few rounds of that, and humanity would go from 18th industrial revolution to illiterate nomads.
                  $endgroup$
                  – luis.espinal
                  1 hour ago











                  0












                  $begingroup$

                  Don't change the planet, change the animals living on it.



                  Do you remember the story of John Henry? As the story goes, he was the best railroad track layer in the country and he challenged a steam hammer to a track laying competition. If he could beat the steam hammer, then the railroad company would use manual labor instead. He was fast enough to win, but he died of exhaustion, and the railroad company used steam hammers anyway. But... what John Henry was just an average railroad track layer, and there where other guys much stronger and faster than he was who could leave a steamhammer in the dust?



                  Now imagine a world where biology is just better across the board. Horses that haul several ton carts at interstate speeds, people who are dexterous enough to weave clothing at the pace of a loom or carve furniture at the speed of power tools, and Oxen that can plow and reap fields with all the speed of a tractor.



                  You don't need to make animals Marvel action hero better, just better enough that creating a technology good enough to beat good-ol-fashioned elbow grease would require too many individual improvements to get from point A to point B for people to ever get there. After all: if steam engines and water mills are never needed, no one would have come up with all of the hundreds of incremental advancements in modern metallurgy and mechanics necessary to finally make people obsolete.



                  The effect that this would have on society is that tools powered by man or animals would just be seen as better. After enough steam powered contraptions come and go, they would begin to be regarded with so much skepticism that even when someone does have a good enough idea to improve things, most people would laugh it off, IE: "A turbine engine? Haha, that's just a fancy steam engine. If I want to fly cross country, I'll just ride a giant bird like any reasonable human being. Good luck not exploding!"






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$













                  • $begingroup$
                    Technological development carries on even without the next marginal improvement being the one which renders it superior in all ways. Steam engines themselves went through a century of tweaking before coming up with something practical, and even then that is a generous description. It might reduce investment, but won't stop the technological progress of nerds investigating weird stuff just for the fun of it.
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    6 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    This kind of gets out of the realm of reality and into more magic. Most biology is at or near its optimal performance levels now.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Sonvar
                    3 hours ago
















                  0












                  $begingroup$

                  Don't change the planet, change the animals living on it.



                  Do you remember the story of John Henry? As the story goes, he was the best railroad track layer in the country and he challenged a steam hammer to a track laying competition. If he could beat the steam hammer, then the railroad company would use manual labor instead. He was fast enough to win, but he died of exhaustion, and the railroad company used steam hammers anyway. But... what John Henry was just an average railroad track layer, and there where other guys much stronger and faster than he was who could leave a steamhammer in the dust?



                  Now imagine a world where biology is just better across the board. Horses that haul several ton carts at interstate speeds, people who are dexterous enough to weave clothing at the pace of a loom or carve furniture at the speed of power tools, and Oxen that can plow and reap fields with all the speed of a tractor.



                  You don't need to make animals Marvel action hero better, just better enough that creating a technology good enough to beat good-ol-fashioned elbow grease would require too many individual improvements to get from point A to point B for people to ever get there. After all: if steam engines and water mills are never needed, no one would have come up with all of the hundreds of incremental advancements in modern metallurgy and mechanics necessary to finally make people obsolete.



                  The effect that this would have on society is that tools powered by man or animals would just be seen as better. After enough steam powered contraptions come and go, they would begin to be regarded with so much skepticism that even when someone does have a good enough idea to improve things, most people would laugh it off, IE: "A turbine engine? Haha, that's just a fancy steam engine. If I want to fly cross country, I'll just ride a giant bird like any reasonable human being. Good luck not exploding!"






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$













                  • $begingroup$
                    Technological development carries on even without the next marginal improvement being the one which renders it superior in all ways. Steam engines themselves went through a century of tweaking before coming up with something practical, and even then that is a generous description. It might reduce investment, but won't stop the technological progress of nerds investigating weird stuff just for the fun of it.
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    6 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    This kind of gets out of the realm of reality and into more magic. Most biology is at or near its optimal performance levels now.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Sonvar
                    3 hours ago














                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$

                  Don't change the planet, change the animals living on it.



                  Do you remember the story of John Henry? As the story goes, he was the best railroad track layer in the country and he challenged a steam hammer to a track laying competition. If he could beat the steam hammer, then the railroad company would use manual labor instead. He was fast enough to win, but he died of exhaustion, and the railroad company used steam hammers anyway. But... what John Henry was just an average railroad track layer, and there where other guys much stronger and faster than he was who could leave a steamhammer in the dust?



                  Now imagine a world where biology is just better across the board. Horses that haul several ton carts at interstate speeds, people who are dexterous enough to weave clothing at the pace of a loom or carve furniture at the speed of power tools, and Oxen that can plow and reap fields with all the speed of a tractor.



                  You don't need to make animals Marvel action hero better, just better enough that creating a technology good enough to beat good-ol-fashioned elbow grease would require too many individual improvements to get from point A to point B for people to ever get there. After all: if steam engines and water mills are never needed, no one would have come up with all of the hundreds of incremental advancements in modern metallurgy and mechanics necessary to finally make people obsolete.



                  The effect that this would have on society is that tools powered by man or animals would just be seen as better. After enough steam powered contraptions come and go, they would begin to be regarded with so much skepticism that even when someone does have a good enough idea to improve things, most people would laugh it off, IE: "A turbine engine? Haha, that's just a fancy steam engine. If I want to fly cross country, I'll just ride a giant bird like any reasonable human being. Good luck not exploding!"






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  Don't change the planet, change the animals living on it.



                  Do you remember the story of John Henry? As the story goes, he was the best railroad track layer in the country and he challenged a steam hammer to a track laying competition. If he could beat the steam hammer, then the railroad company would use manual labor instead. He was fast enough to win, but he died of exhaustion, and the railroad company used steam hammers anyway. But... what John Henry was just an average railroad track layer, and there where other guys much stronger and faster than he was who could leave a steamhammer in the dust?



                  Now imagine a world where biology is just better across the board. Horses that haul several ton carts at interstate speeds, people who are dexterous enough to weave clothing at the pace of a loom or carve furniture at the speed of power tools, and Oxen that can plow and reap fields with all the speed of a tractor.



                  You don't need to make animals Marvel action hero better, just better enough that creating a technology good enough to beat good-ol-fashioned elbow grease would require too many individual improvements to get from point A to point B for people to ever get there. After all: if steam engines and water mills are never needed, no one would have come up with all of the hundreds of incremental advancements in modern metallurgy and mechanics necessary to finally make people obsolete.



                  The effect that this would have on society is that tools powered by man or animals would just be seen as better. After enough steam powered contraptions come and go, they would begin to be regarded with so much skepticism that even when someone does have a good enough idea to improve things, most people would laugh it off, IE: "A turbine engine? Haha, that's just a fancy steam engine. If I want to fly cross country, I'll just ride a giant bird like any reasonable human being. Good luck not exploding!"







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 6 hours ago

























                  answered 6 hours ago









                  NosajimikiNosajimiki

                  2,619120




                  2,619120












                  • $begingroup$
                    Technological development carries on even without the next marginal improvement being the one which renders it superior in all ways. Steam engines themselves went through a century of tweaking before coming up with something practical, and even then that is a generous description. It might reduce investment, but won't stop the technological progress of nerds investigating weird stuff just for the fun of it.
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    6 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    This kind of gets out of the realm of reality and into more magic. Most biology is at or near its optimal performance levels now.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Sonvar
                    3 hours ago


















                  • $begingroup$
                    Technological development carries on even without the next marginal improvement being the one which renders it superior in all ways. Steam engines themselves went through a century of tweaking before coming up with something practical, and even then that is a generous description. It might reduce investment, but won't stop the technological progress of nerds investigating weird stuff just for the fun of it.
                    $endgroup$
                    – pluckedkiwi
                    6 hours ago










                  • $begingroup$
                    This kind of gets out of the realm of reality and into more magic. Most biology is at or near its optimal performance levels now.
                    $endgroup$
                    – Sonvar
                    3 hours ago
















                  $begingroup$
                  Technological development carries on even without the next marginal improvement being the one which renders it superior in all ways. Steam engines themselves went through a century of tweaking before coming up with something practical, and even then that is a generous description. It might reduce investment, but won't stop the technological progress of nerds investigating weird stuff just for the fun of it.
                  $endgroup$
                  – pluckedkiwi
                  6 hours ago




                  $begingroup$
                  Technological development carries on even without the next marginal improvement being the one which renders it superior in all ways. Steam engines themselves went through a century of tweaking before coming up with something practical, and even then that is a generous description. It might reduce investment, but won't stop the technological progress of nerds investigating weird stuff just for the fun of it.
                  $endgroup$
                  – pluckedkiwi
                  6 hours ago












                  $begingroup$
                  This kind of gets out of the realm of reality and into more magic. Most biology is at or near its optimal performance levels now.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Sonvar
                  3 hours ago




                  $begingroup$
                  This kind of gets out of the realm of reality and into more magic. Most biology is at or near its optimal performance levels now.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Sonvar
                  3 hours ago











                  0












                  $begingroup$

                  While not quite at the same level of technology, I suspect better sanitation would be a small, reasonable change.



                  With better sanitation, the black death never rips through Europe. The grip and authority of the church is never challenged in the same way. The population of Europe remains high, preventing wealth and knowledge from accumulating the same way. As a result, people remain in limbo, or at least advance much slower






                  share|improve this answer








                  New contributor




                  Selkie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.






                  $endgroup$


















                    0












                    $begingroup$

                    While not quite at the same level of technology, I suspect better sanitation would be a small, reasonable change.



                    With better sanitation, the black death never rips through Europe. The grip and authority of the church is never challenged in the same way. The population of Europe remains high, preventing wealth and knowledge from accumulating the same way. As a result, people remain in limbo, or at least advance much slower






                    share|improve this answer








                    New contributor




                    Selkie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                    Check out our Code of Conduct.






                    $endgroup$
















                      0












                      0








                      0





                      $begingroup$

                      While not quite at the same level of technology, I suspect better sanitation would be a small, reasonable change.



                      With better sanitation, the black death never rips through Europe. The grip and authority of the church is never challenged in the same way. The population of Europe remains high, preventing wealth and knowledge from accumulating the same way. As a result, people remain in limbo, or at least advance much slower






                      share|improve this answer








                      New contributor




                      Selkie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.






                      $endgroup$



                      While not quite at the same level of technology, I suspect better sanitation would be a small, reasonable change.



                      With better sanitation, the black death never rips through Europe. The grip and authority of the church is never challenged in the same way. The population of Europe remains high, preventing wealth and knowledge from accumulating the same way. As a result, people remain in limbo, or at least advance much slower







                      share|improve this answer








                      New contributor




                      Selkie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer






                      New contributor




                      Selkie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                      answered 5 hours ago









                      SelkieSelkie

                      1011




                      1011




                      New contributor




                      Selkie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.





                      New contributor





                      Selkie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.






                      Selkie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.























                          0












                          $begingroup$

                          Massive solar flares on a regular basis.



                          Also, possibly, a much weaker planetary magnetic field.



                          In 1989, a solar flare knocked out the power in Quebec. Big solar storms capable of knocking out power happen often enough but luckily most of them miss us. And we have a huge magnetic shield around the planet thanks to our active core so smaller storms don't have much impact. (Mars, for example, does not have this magnetic shield, which is a big problem for future colonization plans.)



                          So, I'm thinking:



                          The sun for this planet is far more active than ours. The planet is closer to it. The planet's magnetic field is weaker, offering it much less protection. Under conditions like this, my thinking that any sort of advance towards electricity tends to fail so regularly that it's simply not pursued as anything more than a fun hobby for toys that sometimes work. "Steampunk" (mechanical devices driven by simple engines) become normal and electricity is rarely if ever pursued.



                          Also, they probably have really spectacular auroras.



                          Further reading: https://earthsky.org/space/are-solar-storms-dangerous-to-us






                          share|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$


















                            0












                            $begingroup$

                            Massive solar flares on a regular basis.



                            Also, possibly, a much weaker planetary magnetic field.



                            In 1989, a solar flare knocked out the power in Quebec. Big solar storms capable of knocking out power happen often enough but luckily most of them miss us. And we have a huge magnetic shield around the planet thanks to our active core so smaller storms don't have much impact. (Mars, for example, does not have this magnetic shield, which is a big problem for future colonization plans.)



                            So, I'm thinking:



                            The sun for this planet is far more active than ours. The planet is closer to it. The planet's magnetic field is weaker, offering it much less protection. Under conditions like this, my thinking that any sort of advance towards electricity tends to fail so regularly that it's simply not pursued as anything more than a fun hobby for toys that sometimes work. "Steampunk" (mechanical devices driven by simple engines) become normal and electricity is rarely if ever pursued.



                            Also, they probably have really spectacular auroras.



                            Further reading: https://earthsky.org/space/are-solar-storms-dangerous-to-us






                            share|improve this answer









                            $endgroup$
















                              0












                              0








                              0





                              $begingroup$

                              Massive solar flares on a regular basis.



                              Also, possibly, a much weaker planetary magnetic field.



                              In 1989, a solar flare knocked out the power in Quebec. Big solar storms capable of knocking out power happen often enough but luckily most of them miss us. And we have a huge magnetic shield around the planet thanks to our active core so smaller storms don't have much impact. (Mars, for example, does not have this magnetic shield, which is a big problem for future colonization plans.)



                              So, I'm thinking:



                              The sun for this planet is far more active than ours. The planet is closer to it. The planet's magnetic field is weaker, offering it much less protection. Under conditions like this, my thinking that any sort of advance towards electricity tends to fail so regularly that it's simply not pursued as anything more than a fun hobby for toys that sometimes work. "Steampunk" (mechanical devices driven by simple engines) become normal and electricity is rarely if ever pursued.



                              Also, they probably have really spectacular auroras.



                              Further reading: https://earthsky.org/space/are-solar-storms-dangerous-to-us






                              share|improve this answer









                              $endgroup$



                              Massive solar flares on a regular basis.



                              Also, possibly, a much weaker planetary magnetic field.



                              In 1989, a solar flare knocked out the power in Quebec. Big solar storms capable of knocking out power happen often enough but luckily most of them miss us. And we have a huge magnetic shield around the planet thanks to our active core so smaller storms don't have much impact. (Mars, for example, does not have this magnetic shield, which is a big problem for future colonization plans.)



                              So, I'm thinking:



                              The sun for this planet is far more active than ours. The planet is closer to it. The planet's magnetic field is weaker, offering it much less protection. Under conditions like this, my thinking that any sort of advance towards electricity tends to fail so regularly that it's simply not pursued as anything more than a fun hobby for toys that sometimes work. "Steampunk" (mechanical devices driven by simple engines) become normal and electricity is rarely if ever pursued.



                              Also, they probably have really spectacular auroras.



                              Further reading: https://earthsky.org/space/are-solar-storms-dangerous-to-us







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered 5 hours ago









                              JamieBJamieB

                              43634




                              43634























                                  0












                                  $begingroup$

                                  The Industrial Revolution would have looked very different, if it could have happened at all, if not for surface deposits of coal (and secondarily oil).



                                  Coal is formed by the decomposition of plant matter in peat bogs by anaerobic bacteria. Therefore, a different microbiome during the carboniferous era (and later) might have produced much less coal near the surface where it could have been easily mined. This might involve a new species that was better at decomposing plant matter in water before it could become coal, either aerobic or anaerobic, or the kinds of bacteria that started the process never evolving.






                                  share|improve this answer









                                  $endgroup$


















                                    0












                                    $begingroup$

                                    The Industrial Revolution would have looked very different, if it could have happened at all, if not for surface deposits of coal (and secondarily oil).



                                    Coal is formed by the decomposition of plant matter in peat bogs by anaerobic bacteria. Therefore, a different microbiome during the carboniferous era (and later) might have produced much less coal near the surface where it could have been easily mined. This might involve a new species that was better at decomposing plant matter in water before it could become coal, either aerobic or anaerobic, or the kinds of bacteria that started the process never evolving.






                                    share|improve this answer









                                    $endgroup$
















                                      0












                                      0








                                      0





                                      $begingroup$

                                      The Industrial Revolution would have looked very different, if it could have happened at all, if not for surface deposits of coal (and secondarily oil).



                                      Coal is formed by the decomposition of plant matter in peat bogs by anaerobic bacteria. Therefore, a different microbiome during the carboniferous era (and later) might have produced much less coal near the surface where it could have been easily mined. This might involve a new species that was better at decomposing plant matter in water before it could become coal, either aerobic or anaerobic, or the kinds of bacteria that started the process never evolving.






                                      share|improve this answer









                                      $endgroup$



                                      The Industrial Revolution would have looked very different, if it could have happened at all, if not for surface deposits of coal (and secondarily oil).



                                      Coal is formed by the decomposition of plant matter in peat bogs by anaerobic bacteria. Therefore, a different microbiome during the carboniferous era (and later) might have produced much less coal near the surface where it could have been easily mined. This might involve a new species that was better at decomposing plant matter in water before it could become coal, either aerobic or anaerobic, or the kinds of bacteria that started the process never evolving.







                                      share|improve this answer












                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer










                                      answered 4 hours ago









                                      DavislorDavislor

                                      2,976714




                                      2,976714























                                          0












                                          $begingroup$

                                          The history of mankind is one of progress. There must have been many opportunities missed by mankind, and yet here we are. "missing" the industrial rev would not stop progress, the technology would advance, only in a different way. This would be an interesting idea to work with... How would the technology advance differently?



                                          Let me know if you do anything with this, I would be interested to hear what you write.






                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor




                                          NCT 127 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                          $endgroup$









                                          • 1




                                            $begingroup$
                                            This seems to be more of a comment than an actual answer. Do check out the help center and tour so you can get a better idea of how Worldbuilding Stack Excchange works and what is expected of good queries and responses!
                                            $endgroup$
                                            – elemtilas
                                            2 hours ago










                                          • $begingroup$
                                            @elemtilas Thanks I will.
                                            $endgroup$
                                            – NCT 127
                                            2 hours ago






                                          • 1




                                            $begingroup$
                                            Welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! We're glad you could join us! When you have a moment, please click here to learn more about our culture and take our tour. You're proposing what we call a frame challenge. It's a perfectly valid answer, but ideally comes with a more thorough explanation of why the OP's original premise is inadequate or invalid. You obviously couldn't have known that without reading our Meta, but did a passable job nontheless. Cheers!
                                            $endgroup$
                                            – JBH
                                            1 hour ago
















                                          0












                                          $begingroup$

                                          The history of mankind is one of progress. There must have been many opportunities missed by mankind, and yet here we are. "missing" the industrial rev would not stop progress, the technology would advance, only in a different way. This would be an interesting idea to work with... How would the technology advance differently?



                                          Let me know if you do anything with this, I would be interested to hear what you write.






                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor




                                          NCT 127 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                          $endgroup$









                                          • 1




                                            $begingroup$
                                            This seems to be more of a comment than an actual answer. Do check out the help center and tour so you can get a better idea of how Worldbuilding Stack Excchange works and what is expected of good queries and responses!
                                            $endgroup$
                                            – elemtilas
                                            2 hours ago










                                          • $begingroup$
                                            @elemtilas Thanks I will.
                                            $endgroup$
                                            – NCT 127
                                            2 hours ago






                                          • 1




                                            $begingroup$
                                            Welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! We're glad you could join us! When you have a moment, please click here to learn more about our culture and take our tour. You're proposing what we call a frame challenge. It's a perfectly valid answer, but ideally comes with a more thorough explanation of why the OP's original premise is inadequate or invalid. You obviously couldn't have known that without reading our Meta, but did a passable job nontheless. Cheers!
                                            $endgroup$
                                            – JBH
                                            1 hour ago














                                          0












                                          0








                                          0





                                          $begingroup$

                                          The history of mankind is one of progress. There must have been many opportunities missed by mankind, and yet here we are. "missing" the industrial rev would not stop progress, the technology would advance, only in a different way. This would be an interesting idea to work with... How would the technology advance differently?



                                          Let me know if you do anything with this, I would be interested to hear what you write.






                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor




                                          NCT 127 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                          $endgroup$



                                          The history of mankind is one of progress. There must have been many opportunities missed by mankind, and yet here we are. "missing" the industrial rev would not stop progress, the technology would advance, only in a different way. This would be an interesting idea to work with... How would the technology advance differently?



                                          Let me know if you do anything with this, I would be interested to hear what you write.







                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor




                                          NCT 127 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                          share|improve this answer



                                          share|improve this answer






                                          New contributor




                                          NCT 127 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                          answered 2 hours ago









                                          NCT 127NCT 127

                                          11




                                          11




                                          New contributor




                                          NCT 127 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.





                                          New contributor





                                          NCT 127 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                          NCT 127 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.








                                          • 1




                                            $begingroup$
                                            This seems to be more of a comment than an actual answer. Do check out the help center and tour so you can get a better idea of how Worldbuilding Stack Excchange works and what is expected of good queries and responses!
                                            $endgroup$
                                            – elemtilas
                                            2 hours ago










                                          • $begingroup$
                                            @elemtilas Thanks I will.
                                            $endgroup$
                                            – NCT 127
                                            2 hours ago






                                          • 1




                                            $begingroup$
                                            Welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! We're glad you could join us! When you have a moment, please click here to learn more about our culture and take our tour. You're proposing what we call a frame challenge. It's a perfectly valid answer, but ideally comes with a more thorough explanation of why the OP's original premise is inadequate or invalid. You obviously couldn't have known that without reading our Meta, but did a passable job nontheless. Cheers!
                                            $endgroup$
                                            – JBH
                                            1 hour ago














                                          • 1




                                            $begingroup$
                                            This seems to be more of a comment than an actual answer. Do check out the help center and tour so you can get a better idea of how Worldbuilding Stack Excchange works and what is expected of good queries and responses!
                                            $endgroup$
                                            – elemtilas
                                            2 hours ago










                                          • $begingroup$
                                            @elemtilas Thanks I will.
                                            $endgroup$
                                            – NCT 127
                                            2 hours ago






                                          • 1




                                            $begingroup$
                                            Welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! We're glad you could join us! When you have a moment, please click here to learn more about our culture and take our tour. You're proposing what we call a frame challenge. It's a perfectly valid answer, but ideally comes with a more thorough explanation of why the OP's original premise is inadequate or invalid. You obviously couldn't have known that without reading our Meta, but did a passable job nontheless. Cheers!
                                            $endgroup$
                                            – JBH
                                            1 hour ago








                                          1




                                          1




                                          $begingroup$
                                          This seems to be more of a comment than an actual answer. Do check out the help center and tour so you can get a better idea of how Worldbuilding Stack Excchange works and what is expected of good queries and responses!
                                          $endgroup$
                                          – elemtilas
                                          2 hours ago




                                          $begingroup$
                                          This seems to be more of a comment than an actual answer. Do check out the help center and tour so you can get a better idea of how Worldbuilding Stack Excchange works and what is expected of good queries and responses!
                                          $endgroup$
                                          – elemtilas
                                          2 hours ago












                                          $begingroup$
                                          @elemtilas Thanks I will.
                                          $endgroup$
                                          – NCT 127
                                          2 hours ago




                                          $begingroup$
                                          @elemtilas Thanks I will.
                                          $endgroup$
                                          – NCT 127
                                          2 hours ago




                                          1




                                          1




                                          $begingroup$
                                          Welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! We're glad you could join us! When you have a moment, please click here to learn more about our culture and take our tour. You're proposing what we call a frame challenge. It's a perfectly valid answer, but ideally comes with a more thorough explanation of why the OP's original premise is inadequate or invalid. You obviously couldn't have known that without reading our Meta, but did a passable job nontheless. Cheers!
                                          $endgroup$
                                          – JBH
                                          1 hour ago




                                          $begingroup$
                                          Welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! We're glad you could join us! When you have a moment, please click here to learn more about our culture and take our tour. You're proposing what we call a frame challenge. It's a perfectly valid answer, but ideally comes with a more thorough explanation of why the OP's original premise is inadequate or invalid. You obviously couldn't have known that without reading our Meta, but did a passable job nontheless. Cheers!
                                          $endgroup$
                                          – JBH
                                          1 hour ago










                                          Sheikchilli is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










                                          draft saved

                                          draft discarded


















                                          Sheikchilli is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.













                                          Sheikchilli is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                                          Sheikchilli is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
















                                          Thanks for contributing an answer to Worldbuilding Stack Exchange!


                                          • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                          But avoid



                                          • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                          • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                                          Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                                          To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                          draft saved


                                          draft discarded














                                          StackExchange.ready(
                                          function () {
                                          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f143852%2fwhat-aspect-of-planet-earth-must-be-changed-to-prevent-the-industrial-revolution%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                                          }
                                          );

                                          Post as a guest















                                          Required, but never shown





















































                                          Required, but never shown














                                          Required, but never shown












                                          Required, but never shown







                                          Required, but never shown

































                                          Required, but never shown














                                          Required, but never shown












                                          Required, but never shown







                                          Required, but never shown







                                          Popular posts from this blog

                                          Statuo de Libereco

                                          Tanganjiko

                                          Liste der Baudenkmäler in Enneberg