Can we have a perfect cadence in a minor key?
I understand that, at least in the context of using a major scale, a perfect cadence is V-I. That is, if I were playing a piece in C major, I could play a chord similiar to the G major triad followed by a chord similar to the C major triad.*
What about in a minor key? If my piece is in the key of A minor, would I achieve a perfect cadence by playing an E major chord followed by an A major chord? Or would I instead have to play an E minor chord followed by an A minor chord?
Footnotes:
*I know that some theorists say that its not a perfect cadence unless the highest note of the I chord is the tonic note. For my purposes, however, I'm not using that convention.
theory chords cadence
edited 4 hours ago
Richard
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Pascal's WagerPascal's Wager
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I understand that, at least in the context of using a major scale, a perfect cadence is V-I. That is, if I were playing a piece in C major, I could play a chord similiar to the G major triad followed by a chord similar to the C major triad.*
What about in a minor key? If my piece is in the key of A minor, would I achieve a perfect cadence by playing an E major chord followed by an A major chord? Or would I instead have to play an E minor chord followed by an A minor chord?
Footnotes:
*I know that some theorists say that its not a perfect cadence unless the highest note of the I chord is the tonic note. For my purposes, however, I'm not using that convention.
theory chords cadence
edited 4 hours ago
Richard
43.5k7100186
asked 8 hours ago
Pascal's WagerPascal's Wager
1111
New contributor
Pascal's Wager is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
I understand that, at least in the context of using a major scale, a perfect cadence is V-I. That is, if I were playing a piece in C major, I could play a chord similiar to the G major triad followed by a chord similar to the C major triad.*
What about in a minor key? If my piece is in the key of A minor, would I achieve a perfect cadence by playing an E major chord followed by an A major chord? Or would I instead have to play an E minor chord followed by an A minor chord?
Footnotes:
*I know that some theorists say that its not a perfect cadence unless the highest note of the I chord is the tonic note. For my purposes, however, I'm not using that convention.
theory chords cadence
edited 4 hours ago
Richard
43.5k7100186
asked 8 hours ago
Pascal's WagerPascal's Wager
1111
New contributor
Pascal's Wager is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I understand that, at least in the context of using a major scale, a perfect cadence is V-I. That is, if I were playing a piece in C major, I could play a chord similiar to the G major triad followed by a chord similar to the C major triad.*
What about in a minor key? If my piece is in the key of A minor, would I achieve a perfect cadence by playing an E major chord followed by an A major chord? Or would I instead have to play an E minor chord followed by an A minor chord?
Footnotes:
*I know that some theorists say that its not a perfect cadence unless the highest note of the I chord is the tonic note. For my purposes, however, I'm not using that convention.
theory chords cadence
theory chords cadence
edited 4 hours ago
Richard
43.5k7100186
asked 8 hours ago
Pascal's WagerPascal's Wager
1111
New contributor
Pascal's Wager is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 4 hours ago
Richard
43.5k7100186
asked 8 hours ago
Pascal's WagerPascal's Wager
1111
New contributor
Pascal's Wager is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 4 hours ago
Richard
43.5k7100186
edited 4 hours ago
Richard
43.5k7100186
edited 4 hours ago
Richard
43.5k7100186
43.5k7100186
asked 8 hours ago
Pascal's WagerPascal's Wager
1111
New contributor
Pascal's Wager is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 8 hours ago
Pascal's WagerPascal's Wager
1111
asked 8 hours ago
Pascal's WagerPascal's Wager
1111
1111
New contributor
Pascal's Wager is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Pascal's Wager is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
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Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
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For starters, we can call this cadence an authentic cadence, since by definition that is understood to be a V–I motion. The highest note distinguishes between perfect and imperfect authentic cadences.
With that said, an authentic cadence is simply a root-position dominant moving to a root-position tonic. Whether tonic is major or minor will not affect the quality of the cadence.
In fact, the quality of the tonic chord can be opposite of what you expect and still be considered a perfect authentic cadence. This is pretty intuitive in minor; ending on a major tonic almost makes the cadence more final. But even in major, if we suddenly cadence onto a minor tonic, this is still a perfect authentic cadence. (Although we'd certainly want to clarify that it's attenuated in some way with the unexpected shift to minor.)
answered 8 hours ago
RichardRichard
43.5k7100186
1
'Imperfect authentic' cadence gets dangerously close to the UK 'imperfect cadence', which is the reverse of our 'perfect' cadence, i.e. I>V. Confusing, init?
– Tim
6 hours ago
add a comment |
Americans seem to call a 'Perfect cadence' an 'Authentic cadence'. And there's this new thing a 'Perfect Authentic cadence'. OK, whatever. Dominant to tonic. Perfect (or Authentic) cadence.
This is a Common Practice, Functional Harmony thing. A world where minor scales are Harmonic (at cadence points, at any rate), dominant chords are major and thus include the leading note. But tonics can be minor. The urge to 'regularise' a final cadence in a minor key with a Tierce di Picardie was not always followed!
So, G7 - C is a Perfect cadence. So is E7 - Am. And we don't have to change that to E7 - A in order to make it one.
Em - Am does happen, and it has every right to be considered some sort of a cadence. But it isn't a Perfect one.
answered 8 hours ago
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
36.7k1671
1
I have music theory books written in the 1970s that teach the “perfect authentic cadence”. I’m not sure how old the term is beyond that but I’m not convinced it’s “new”.
– Todd Wilcox
6 hours ago
2
@ToddWilcox - probably not that new, but certainly U.S. based. In U.K. it's not a term used often, in fact, in exams, the four main cadences are the only ones used: perfect, imperfect, interrupted and plagal. Not sure, but U.S. most likely don't use any of those terms!
– Tim
6 hours ago
@Tim I was taught all of those terms. In the U.S.
– Todd Wilcox
5 hours ago
A book called Woodruff’s Comprehensive Music Course from 1899 has a section on the “perfect authentic cadence”. It does appear to be an American book.
– Todd Wilcox
5 hours ago
@ToddWilcox - it would be good to have a list of all cadences, to use as a reference point.
– Tim
5 hours ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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active
oldest
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2 Answers
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active
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For starters, we can call this cadence an authentic cadence, since by definition that is understood to be a V–I motion. The highest note distinguishes between perfect and imperfect authentic cadences.
With that said, an authentic cadence is simply a root-position dominant moving to a root-position tonic. Whether tonic is major or minor will not affect the quality of the cadence.
In fact, the quality of the tonic chord can be opposite of what you expect and still be considered a perfect authentic cadence. This is pretty intuitive in minor; ending on a major tonic almost makes the cadence more final. But even in major, if we suddenly cadence onto a minor tonic, this is still a perfect authentic cadence. (Although we'd certainly want to clarify that it's attenuated in some way with the unexpected shift to minor.)
answered 8 hours ago
RichardRichard
43.5k7100186
1
'Imperfect authentic' cadence gets dangerously close to the UK 'imperfect cadence', which is the reverse of our 'perfect' cadence, i.e. I>V. Confusing, init?
– Tim
6 hours ago
add a comment |
For starters, we can call this cadence an authentic cadence, since by definition that is understood to be a V–I motion. The highest note distinguishes between perfect and imperfect authentic cadences.
With that said, an authentic cadence is simply a root-position dominant moving to a root-position tonic. Whether tonic is major or minor will not affect the quality of the cadence.
In fact, the quality of the tonic chord can be opposite of what you expect and still be considered a perfect authentic cadence. This is pretty intuitive in minor; ending on a major tonic almost makes the cadence more final. But even in major, if we suddenly cadence onto a minor tonic, this is still a perfect authentic cadence. (Although we'd certainly want to clarify that it's attenuated in some way with the unexpected shift to minor.)
answered 8 hours ago
RichardRichard
43.5k7100186
1
'Imperfect authentic' cadence gets dangerously close to the UK 'imperfect cadence', which is the reverse of our 'perfect' cadence, i.e. I>V. Confusing, init?
– Tim
6 hours ago
add a comment |
For starters, we can call this cadence an authentic cadence, since by definition that is understood to be a V–I motion. The highest note distinguishes between perfect and imperfect authentic cadences.
With that said, an authentic cadence is simply a root-position dominant moving to a root-position tonic. Whether tonic is major or minor will not affect the quality of the cadence.
In fact, the quality of the tonic chord can be opposite of what you expect and still be considered a perfect authentic cadence. This is pretty intuitive in minor; ending on a major tonic almost makes the cadence more final. But even in major, if we suddenly cadence onto a minor tonic, this is still a perfect authentic cadence. (Although we'd certainly want to clarify that it's attenuated in some way with the unexpected shift to minor.)
answered 8 hours ago
RichardRichard
43.5k7100186
For starters, we can call this cadence an authentic cadence, since by definition that is understood to be a V–I motion. The highest note distinguishes between perfect and imperfect authentic cadences.
With that said, an authentic cadence is simply a root-position dominant moving to a root-position tonic. Whether tonic is major or minor will not affect the quality of the cadence.
In fact, the quality of the tonic chord can be opposite of what you expect and still be considered a perfect authentic cadence. This is pretty intuitive in minor; ending on a major tonic almost makes the cadence more final. But even in major, if we suddenly cadence onto a minor tonic, this is still a perfect authentic cadence. (Although we'd certainly want to clarify that it's attenuated in some way with the unexpected shift to minor.)
answered 8 hours ago
RichardRichard
43.5k7100186
answered 8 hours ago
RichardRichard
43.5k7100186
answered 8 hours ago
RichardRichard
43.5k7100186
answered 8 hours ago
RichardRichard
43.5k7100186
43.5k7100186
1
'Imperfect authentic' cadence gets dangerously close to the UK 'imperfect cadence', which is the reverse of our 'perfect' cadence, i.e. I>V. Confusing, init?
– Tim
6 hours ago
add a comment |
1
'Imperfect authentic' cadence gets dangerously close to the UK 'imperfect cadence', which is the reverse of our 'perfect' cadence, i.e. I>V. Confusing, init?
– Tim
6 hours ago
1
1
'Imperfect authentic' cadence gets dangerously close to the UK 'imperfect cadence', which is the reverse of our 'perfect' cadence, i.e. I>V. Confusing, init?
– Tim
6 hours ago
'Imperfect authentic' cadence gets dangerously close to the UK 'imperfect cadence', which is the reverse of our 'perfect' cadence, i.e. I>V. Confusing, init?
– Tim
6 hours ago
add a comment |
Americans seem to call a 'Perfect cadence' an 'Authentic cadence'. And there's this new thing a 'Perfect Authentic cadence'. OK, whatever. Dominant to tonic. Perfect (or Authentic) cadence.
This is a Common Practice, Functional Harmony thing. A world where minor scales are Harmonic (at cadence points, at any rate), dominant chords are major and thus include the leading note. But tonics can be minor. The urge to 'regularise' a final cadence in a minor key with a Tierce di Picardie was not always followed!
So, G7 - C is a Perfect cadence. So is E7 - Am. And we don't have to change that to E7 - A in order to make it one.
Em - Am does happen, and it has every right to be considered some sort of a cadence. But it isn't a Perfect one.
answered 8 hours ago
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
36.7k1671
1
I have music theory books written in the 1970s that teach the “perfect authentic cadence”. I’m not sure how old the term is beyond that but I’m not convinced it’s “new”.
– Todd Wilcox
6 hours ago
2
@ToddWilcox - probably not that new, but certainly U.S. based. In U.K. it's not a term used often, in fact, in exams, the four main cadences are the only ones used: perfect, imperfect, interrupted and plagal. Not sure, but U.S. most likely don't use any of those terms!
– Tim
6 hours ago
@Tim I was taught all of those terms. In the U.S.
– Todd Wilcox
5 hours ago
A book called Woodruff’s Comprehensive Music Course from 1899 has a section on the “perfect authentic cadence”. It does appear to be an American book.
– Todd Wilcox
5 hours ago
@ToddWilcox - it would be good to have a list of all cadences, to use as a reference point.
– Tim
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Americans seem to call a 'Perfect cadence' an 'Authentic cadence'. And there's this new thing a 'Perfect Authentic cadence'. OK, whatever. Dominant to tonic. Perfect (or Authentic) cadence.
This is a Common Practice, Functional Harmony thing. A world where minor scales are Harmonic (at cadence points, at any rate), dominant chords are major and thus include the leading note. But tonics can be minor. The urge to 'regularise' a final cadence in a minor key with a Tierce di Picardie was not always followed!
So, G7 - C is a Perfect cadence. So is E7 - Am. And we don't have to change that to E7 - A in order to make it one.
Em - Am does happen, and it has every right to be considered some sort of a cadence. But it isn't a Perfect one.
answered 8 hours ago
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
36.7k1671
1
I have music theory books written in the 1970s that teach the “perfect authentic cadence”. I’m not sure how old the term is beyond that but I’m not convinced it’s “new”.
– Todd Wilcox
6 hours ago
2
@ToddWilcox - probably not that new, but certainly U.S. based. In U.K. it's not a term used often, in fact, in exams, the four main cadences are the only ones used: perfect, imperfect, interrupted and plagal. Not sure, but U.S. most likely don't use any of those terms!
– Tim
6 hours ago
@Tim I was taught all of those terms. In the U.S.
– Todd Wilcox
5 hours ago
A book called Woodruff’s Comprehensive Music Course from 1899 has a section on the “perfect authentic cadence”. It does appear to be an American book.
– Todd Wilcox
5 hours ago
@ToddWilcox - it would be good to have a list of all cadences, to use as a reference point.
– Tim
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Americans seem to call a 'Perfect cadence' an 'Authentic cadence'. And there's this new thing a 'Perfect Authentic cadence'. OK, whatever. Dominant to tonic. Perfect (or Authentic) cadence.
This is a Common Practice, Functional Harmony thing. A world where minor scales are Harmonic (at cadence points, at any rate), dominant chords are major and thus include the leading note. But tonics can be minor. The urge to 'regularise' a final cadence in a minor key with a Tierce di Picardie was not always followed!
So, G7 - C is a Perfect cadence. So is E7 - Am. And we don't have to change that to E7 - A in order to make it one.
Em - Am does happen, and it has every right to be considered some sort of a cadence. But it isn't a Perfect one.
answered 8 hours ago
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
36.7k1671
Americans seem to call a 'Perfect cadence' an 'Authentic cadence'. And there's this new thing a 'Perfect Authentic cadence'. OK, whatever. Dominant to tonic. Perfect (or Authentic) cadence.
This is a Common Practice, Functional Harmony thing. A world where minor scales are Harmonic (at cadence points, at any rate), dominant chords are major and thus include the leading note. But tonics can be minor. The urge to 'regularise' a final cadence in a minor key with a Tierce di Picardie was not always followed!
So, G7 - C is a Perfect cadence. So is E7 - Am. And we don't have to change that to E7 - A in order to make it one.
Em - Am does happen, and it has every right to be considered some sort of a cadence. But it isn't a Perfect one.
answered 8 hours ago
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
36.7k1671
answered 8 hours ago
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
36.7k1671
answered 8 hours ago
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
36.7k1671
answered 8 hours ago
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
36.7k1671
36.7k1671
1
I have music theory books written in the 1970s that teach the “perfect authentic cadence”. I’m not sure how old the term is beyond that but I’m not convinced it’s “new”.
– Todd Wilcox
6 hours ago
2
@ToddWilcox - probably not that new, but certainly U.S. based. In U.K. it's not a term used often, in fact, in exams, the four main cadences are the only ones used: perfect, imperfect, interrupted and plagal. Not sure, but U.S. most likely don't use any of those terms!
– Tim
6 hours ago
@Tim I was taught all of those terms. In the U.S.
– Todd Wilcox
5 hours ago
A book called Woodruff’s Comprehensive Music Course from 1899 has a section on the “perfect authentic cadence”. It does appear to be an American book.
– Todd Wilcox
5 hours ago
@ToddWilcox - it would be good to have a list of all cadences, to use as a reference point.
– Tim
5 hours ago
add a comment |
1
I have music theory books written in the 1970s that teach the “perfect authentic cadence”. I’m not sure how old the term is beyond that but I’m not convinced it’s “new”.
– Todd Wilcox
6 hours ago
2
@ToddWilcox - probably not that new, but certainly U.S. based. In U.K. it's not a term used often, in fact, in exams, the four main cadences are the only ones used: perfect, imperfect, interrupted and plagal. Not sure, but U.S. most likely don't use any of those terms!
– Tim
6 hours ago
@Tim I was taught all of those terms. In the U.S.
– Todd Wilcox
5 hours ago
A book called Woodruff’s Comprehensive Music Course from 1899 has a section on the “perfect authentic cadence”. It does appear to be an American book.
– Todd Wilcox
5 hours ago
@ToddWilcox - it would be good to have a list of all cadences, to use as a reference point.
– Tim
5 hours ago
1
1
I have music theory books written in the 1970s that teach the “perfect authentic cadence”. I’m not sure how old the term is beyond that but I’m not convinced it’s “new”.
– Todd Wilcox
6 hours ago
I have music theory books written in the 1970s that teach the “perfect authentic cadence”. I’m not sure how old the term is beyond that but I’m not convinced it’s “new”.
– Todd Wilcox
6 hours ago
2
2
@ToddWilcox - probably not that new, but certainly U.S. based. In U.K. it's not a term used often, in fact, in exams, the four main cadences are the only ones used: perfect, imperfect, interrupted and plagal. Not sure, but U.S. most likely don't use any of those terms!
– Tim
6 hours ago
@ToddWilcox - probably not that new, but certainly U.S. based. In U.K. it's not a term used often, in fact, in exams, the four main cadences are the only ones used: perfect, imperfect, interrupted and plagal. Not sure, but U.S. most likely don't use any of those terms!
– Tim
6 hours ago
@Tim I was taught all of those terms. In the U.S.
– Todd Wilcox
5 hours ago
@Tim I was taught all of those terms. In the U.S.
– Todd Wilcox
5 hours ago
A book called Woodruff’s Comprehensive Music Course from 1899 has a section on the “perfect authentic cadence”. It does appear to be an American book.
– Todd Wilcox
5 hours ago
A book called Woodruff’s Comprehensive Music Course from 1899 has a section on the “perfect authentic cadence”. It does appear to be an American book.
– Todd Wilcox
5 hours ago
@ToddWilcox - it would be good to have a list of all cadences, to use as a reference point.
– Tim
5 hours ago
@ToddWilcox - it would be good to have a list of all cadences, to use as a reference point.
– Tim
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Pascal's Wager is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Pascal's Wager is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Pascal's Wager is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Pascal's Wager is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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